Mothers are Sluts and I am Fucking Sick of Their Bullshit. A Contrarian Mother’s Day Post.

I have only ever heard child-free lesbian women being severely and publicly critical of mothers and motherhood, and in one of 2 contexts. Firstly, in the context of discussing matriarchy: women and feminists often believe that matriarchy or a return to matriarchal societies, assuming any ever existed,* will cure what ails us and necessarily desire to give political power not to women as a class but exclusively to mothers, as if women who have given birth are the only ones with the necessary skillset, temperment and whatnot to effectively rule. In the matriarchal vision, childless or child-free women seem relegated to the back of the room with children and males (and nonhuman animals) and we are expected to accept a subordinate place in the matriarchal utopia.

Unsurprisingly, some child-free women have a problem with a matriarchal vision and do no accept that mothers occupy a unique position to rule or that mother-rule would be a utopia for us or anyone.** I appreciate these discussions very much as an antidote to the mainstream and mainstream feminist discourse around children, mothers and motherhood and by extension, the discourse around childless or child-free women as essentially overgrown children who need mothers to tell us what to do forever. For some reason, a hierarchy of mothers over non-mothers is assumed and usually goes unexamined in discussions of matriarchy, even though a departure from hierarchies and power-over is often intended in discussing alternatives to patriarchy. Patriarchy is rather defined by hierarchy and power-over afterall, and women have found that hierarchies and power-over are abusive per-se and are always destructive to women and feminist space.

The second context in which mother-criticism occurs is the criticism of not mothers and motherhood per se, but criticism of patriarchal mothers and patriarchal motherhood, and the abuse and neglect and whatnot mothers perpetrate on their own children when they themselves are oppressed. This too is a refreshing departure from the usual misogynistic woman blame/shame, where criticism of mothers always includes derision and punishment for not being “perfect” mothers or natural caretakers, but where women’s oppressed station ensures that they will not have the resources to mother properly even if they wanted to, including performing self-care so that they are up to the task of caring for others.

What I do not believe I have ever heard, except where I have brought it up, is a discussion and criticism of why and how women become mothers in the first place under patriarchy, or how women would become mothers even in a non-patriarchal context for that matter, and that’s by pleasing men. Even in a non-patriarchal context, unless non-technological parthenogenesis has been achieved, creating a pregnancy would necessarily entail procuring sperm, and that normally means that a male somewhere has achieved orgasm which is usually considered pleasing to men. Human reproduction itself in every context may therefore be dependent on (or at least inexorably linked to) male-pleasing.

However, in a patriarchal context, the male-pleasing is even more clear and even more problematic, especially where and if mothers think that they are better than non-mothers, and that they hold a position of legitimate power and authority over anyone and Holy Shit, mothers do think that, don’t they? Mothers think they have a legitimate claim of authority over everyone, including their own children, other people’s children, and importantly over child-free women, who mothers regard as overgrown babies no matter how old or experienced we are. But this claim of authority is not based in anything legitimate, and maternal authority is therefore not a legitimate authority at all.

To wit, in my estimation, under the current paradigm, women become impregnated, and thus become mothers, under the following conditions: by engaging in heterosexual sex, which for females is a sexuality rather defined by pleasing men; through rape, which is also pleasing to men and which many men find indistinguishable from sex; and via patriarchal reproductive technologies, where women let Big Medicine and Western medical doctors torture and experiment on them, where males are known to enjoy torturing females, males, and nonhuman animals and they do it for sport, and have elevated torture to an artform. Women can also become “mothers” by stealing other women’s babies, which hardly cements their claim of legitimate authority over anyone.

Patriarchal mothers are sluts, basically, where “slut” is more or less synonymous with male-pleasing, and where mothers have taken male-pleasing to the next (or Nth) level: by sexually pleasing males to procure sperm and then by bringing life into the world, where mothers fundamentally lack the resources to protect their children, guaranteeing that the next generation will also be tortured by men and so on. Mothers certainly have more legitimate authority over children than men do, considering men’s relative contribution and male temperment and whatnot, but that does not mean that mothers’ claim of authority is legitimate on its face, or that mothers have a legitimate or unequivocal claim to authority over nonmothers, or over their own or anyone’s children. Get it?

In reality, being male-pleasing is not a positive trait or a worthwhile activity and (therefore) actually imbues mothers with less legitimate authority than women who are not (or who are less) male pleasing. Doesn’t it? Moreover, pleasing men, including being in constant, close proximity to men and including being raped by men, is actually extremely traumatizing to women, and trauma often undermines women’s physical and mental health. While being traumatized (or unhealthy) certainly does not diminish a woman’s inherent worth, and child-free women suffer trauma under patriarchy too, trauma is known to diminish mental capacity, for example, which actually makes anyone less able to make reasonable choices, less able to accurately or honestly assess their environment and so on.

These issues of mental capacity, ability to reason and whatnot are on the table for all mothers by virtue of the fact that they were impregnated in the first place and it should therefore be up to mothers to show that their authority is legitimate. The legitimate authority of male-pleasing women should never be assumed, but that is what virtually all mothers require. The example has been used of mothers demanding to be centered and catered-to in feminist space and demanding control over significant aspects of feminist organizing, including what issues are to be addressed and how feminist resources are to be allocated. Child-free women are simply expected to defer to mothers’ authority and cater to mothers’ needs while ignoring their own. Unresourced child-free women are even expected to babysit, as well as performing additional unpaid work, in exchange for admittance to feminist events.

So what is legitimate authority? Here, a review of the material on antiauthoritarianism is instructive. While authoritarians accept authority and various authority figures without question, antiauthoritarian people only accept authority that is legitimate and reject “authority” that is not legitimate. Psychologist Bruce Levine has described legitimate authority as that which is based in honesty, knowledge and genuine care and concern for subordinates, for example. When applying those criteria to mothers, we can see that mothers often fall very far short of that and are unable to be honest with themselves or anyone, particularly about men and male sadism.

Additionally, mothers are often isolated in their maternal and/or wifely role, which means that they lack knowledge about the larger world and how it operates. Mothers are also conspicuously unknowledgeable about adult, child-free women and what being a non-male-pleasing woman entails. And although mothers are charged with the care and concern of children, mothers are also in direct competition with children for familial and societal resources, creating obvious conflicts of interest between mothers’ care and concern for dependents and mothers’ care and concern for themselves. All of these trappings of patriarchal motherhood serve to undermine any legitimate claim to authority on the part of mothers. Sadly, most children are reliant on male-pleasing, traumatized, ignorant and self-interested mothers to meet all of their emotional and physical needs.

Mothers also seem to be fundamentally authoritarian themselves, and almost exclusively are not antiauthoritarian and are unsupportive and even overtly hostile toward antiauthoritarian children and adults. Afterall, if a woman was not already an authoritarian by constitution or grooming, why would she ever want to have or exercise complete control over someone else, including over a child? I don’t suppose I need to explain to my readers why authoritarians are problematic to feminism, or how authoritarian women might make themselves problematic in radical feminist space. Some women including feminist women understandably decline to recognize the authority of patriarchal mothers over themselves or over anyone, and these women’s concerns are valid. For my part, I am sick of patriarchal mothers and their bullshit, particularly their signature male pleasing, self-interested, authoritarian bullshit, and what these traits predictably do and bring to radical feminist space. And it’s not just me.

Comments open.

*Every example I have ever seen of a “matriarchal” culture rather necessarily entails women doing all the important work and males hanging around the periphery trying and often failing to stay out of trouble. That these so-called matriarchal societies are still primarily organized around men and their violence and uselessness is not lost on me, where women spend an inordinate amount of time and energy dealing with the bad behavior of boys and men including trying to prevent it from occurring in the first place but also dealing with the aftermath with punishments and whatnot in the second. Women being controlled by men and organizing their lives around men is still male-centered, and therefore not ideal, even if that arrangement is not technically patriarchal.

**Obviously, whether males including male children would consider matriarchy to be a utopia is irrelevant in lesbian space and it is irrelevant in this space. I hold no space for males and what they think or feel about anything, and I assume that my readers are sophisticated enough to grok that, in a female-only space, criticism of women or motherhood is not primarily woman-hating. I would never say that women or mothers are sluts in a male-oriented space where male-oriented spaces are primarily woman-hating by design and where all words referring to women and mothers only debase us in comparison to males by design. To wit, in this post, when I say that mothers are sluts, I mean in comparison to other women who are less male pleasing, including child-free women, celibate women, and all lesbians. Obviously, males are the biggest sluts and are the worst offenders in every sense across the board.

180 thoughts on “Mothers are Sluts and I am Fucking Sick of Their Bullshit. A Contrarian Mother’s Day Post.

  1. Putting on “happy mother” face is a requirement for mothers in the male-world who do *not* want to have their children removed from them.

    Just as the “happy hooker” face is a requirement for young childless women who don’t want to be ostracized and scapegoated.

    Ever since I was twenty-three the “happy mother” face is a trick I’ve had to turn. Even when the kid’s grown up, you *still* have to keep turning it. Once they know you’re a mother – – gotta be happy, or else. The social fist in the face.

    I hate Mother’s Day.

    Liked by 2 people

  2. I agree with you & personally stay away from any feminist spaces that are not child free. Mothers do certainly have a pompous belief that they know more than childfree women.

    > child-free lesbian women

    It’s not relevant to your post, but just FYI Teri Strange no longer considers herself a feminist or lesbian, if I recall correctly.

    > through rape, which is also pleasing to men and which many men find indistinguishable from sex

    I don’t think men actually have a “sexuality” the way women do; the ‘sex urge’ in them is nothing but fetishized violence. All “sex” to men must involve coercion of some sort. If men liked “consensual” sex – which is hard to imagine from within the context of patriarchy – they would not have spent thousands of years building up a system in which women are coerced into PIV through legal, economic, & political means. It would’ve taken them much less effort to have simply figured out how to make sexual activities with women more appealing *to women* – mandatory reversible vasectomies so the woman does not have to worry about pregnancy, extensive grooming and beauty practices for men so they are more visually appealing to women, public education about female sexual pleasure & response so that sex is actually enjoyable for the female, etc. etc. (Of course this relies on the controversial assumption that heterosexuality would even exist outside of patriarchy and that PIV would be anything other than rape even outside of patriarchy.) Men have had plenty of resources to be able to do these things; the fact that they choose not to do so is evidence that the female’s pain is vital to their “sexual” pleasure & response. This is also why they enjoy masochistic beauty rituals performed by women – high heels, ripping hair out of the body, etc. The more pain a woman is in, the more pleasure a man feels. Men have literally said this themselves.

    Rape is sex to men, coercive sex is sex to men. I don’t think anything else actually even counts as “sex” to XY. Studies have shown that when men actually care about their partner’s sexual response, it is to boost their masculine pride and provide them with another way to feel control over the woman.

    > That these so-called matriarchal societies are still primarily organized around men and their violence and uselessness is not lost

    Even male biologists admit that males in every species are at best deadweights and at worst parasites. And yet women for thousands of years still have not gotten this message.

    “In a review of the evidence relating to human males, my colleague and mentor Sebastian Kraemer has set out the scale of the problem. Throughout life, men are more vulnerable than women on most measures. This starts with the biological fragility of the male fetus, leading to “a greater risk of death or damage from almost all the obstetric catastrophes that can happen before birth.” If they survive these catastrophes, boys then have a far greater susceptibility to developmental disorders than girls. These are magnified in turn by our cultural assumptions about masculinity, and by our low expectations of males. The toxic interaction of biological and social ingredients shows itself in far higher rates of suicide and deaths through violent crime.

    Males also do worse in (among other things) scholastic achievement, emotional literacy, alcoholism, substance abuse, circulatory disorders, diabetes, and longevity. Kraemer looks at how male disadvantage is “wired in” from infancy and persists to the grave, but he suggests that we shouldn’t necessarily conclude that maleness is a genetic disorder. Instead, he argues, we should show more curiosity about the reasons for boys and men being so vulnerable, and should pay more attention to redressing this in child-rearing and in medicine.”
    -https://lithub.com/do-we-even-need-men/

    Note that last sentence, that we should try to makeup for these deficiencies (always at the expense of females). Absolutely ridiculous. Why should we prop up a class of individuals who do nothing but rape and abuse us, who are worse at everything than women aside from raping & committing other unspeakable degenerate evils?

    So yes, your statements about males even in a matriarchy are completely accurate. (Unless maybe they were kept at a very small percentage of the population and had very severe legal restrictions placed on them.)

    Liked by 3 people

  3. Staying away from children is much easier than staying away from mothers and their bullshit. Thank you both for engaging with this post and/or taking it as it was intended, ie. not as primarily woman-hating. I think the issue of legitimate vs illegitimate authority is compelling in itself, and then when applied to maternal authority is next-level compelling. If the criteria are honesty, knowledge and care, there is virtually no legitimate authority under patriarchy at all, and that certainly applies to mothers and maternal authority. I mean it’s literally right there, isn’t it. It’s pretty clear. No “hatred” required.

    Liked by 3 people

  4. What’s ironic too is that women who uphold motherhood as a badge of superiority are really just buying into the patriarchal script, which upholds mothers above childfree wimms. In reality it is distinctly *anti-feminist* to uphold motherhood, for the reasons you mentioned.

    Liked by 4 people

  5. If males didn’t use multiple systems to force us into pairing/partnering with them, we most certainly wouldn’t interact with them, at all.

    Males have no personality traits, or skills, or interests, only forms and levels of dominance.

    I am just agreeing with everything that you say here. I am always weirdly relieved to find another woman who can clearly see, like I see.

    Also. Wtf with terri strange. Now I am wondering if she has morphed into some kind of conservative troon supporter, lol.

    Liked by 2 people

  6. I either didn’t know or realize that mother’s picture themselves in control in some version of matriarchy based solely on having given birth. That’s just ignorant, for lack of a better word.

    I have heard lesbian mothers of sons be completely honest about their male children growing into adult XY trash, but by then, they have already sent more rapists out into the world, after thinking that they were going to be the woman that raised a feminist male that was going to save all of the women from all of the rapists. Mothers of sons generally seem to think that their singular influence is going to override all of society, and that their little price is going to be special and unique.

    Do they really think that strong, feminist women have never raised sons before? Do they really think they they are so much better than women before them?

    And if you go down that road very far, then it becomes, once again, blaming women for male behavior. Mothers can’t raise feminist boys, or respectful, caring males because males choose varying forms of dominance, violence, abuse every time. It’s who they are. It’s what they are.

    My personal gripe with mothers is that it’s very much like dealing with males. Mothers think that you hate all mothers and hate all children if ever a critical word is said, so it seems necessary to say NotAllMothers and NotAllChildren, lol.

    The unpopular truth is that mother’s devotion to sons is what destroys us all. Devotion to a husband, father, brother, to any male can be detrimental, but can be undone much easier than mother’s devotion to sons.

    There are multiple, public examples of Women in the 70s, leaving the sons that they birthed with the “fathers” and taking their daughters with them. That’s why the second wave changed so much, before males wore them out. Most of them rigorously and unapologetically centered women and girls. And the biggest part of that is turning your back on all things male. Even the ones that came out of you.

    Liked by 5 people

  7. Yes, were the child free lesbians being pedantic when they clocked “matriarchy” as being mother-rule? Patriarchy is father-rule and matriarchy exchanges the female version with the male version, of parent, which is mother. I never thought about it like that either, I believed matriarchy referred to simply taking power away from men and giving it to women. But I think parsing that was wise and I appreciated hearing it. Having any “parent” in charge of anything makes everything seem that much more sinister IMO seeing as how parents are authoritarian tyrants whose job it is to break their children through “socialization” which means oppression and grooming for female children. I fucking hate parents. Authoritarians in general are just lazy, cruel tyrants as far as I can tell. They really don’t need to be in charge of anything. Maybe in the absence of patriarchy it wouldn’t be so bad, but the male-pleasing aspect of reproduction is always there, isn’t it. That’s so wild that it goes all the way down to orgasm being pleasing to men. It’s baked-in.

    Liked by 3 people

  8. I would love to see any parent take full moral responsibility for their children. Don’t we generally hold people responsible for what they create? Parents are master compartmentalizers who don’t seem to give a moment’s thought to what they have done when they brought life into this world. They pass along their defective genes and expose their kids to all kinds of traumatic, toxic shit, and then abandon them when they age-out of childhood if not much sooner, to let the kids deal with their own “issues” or “baggage” or illnesses or whatever as if the parents have no responsibility for any of it, despite having created it. There are probably cultures that aren’t as bad as this one as far as throwing our children to the wolves to be used as canon fodder or unpaid/underpaid labor, and parents being celebrated for doing so. But in this culture, there is no legitimate reason to have children for most people. Having children is for passing along generational wealth as far as I can tell. Rich people are assholes, but I can’t think of a single other legitimate reason for having kids but to pass along generational goodies. It’s gross but I think it’s legitimate, meaning it’s logical and actually serves a purpose, unlike when normal people do it. I think the same thing about weddings. Spending $50k+ on a wedding makes sense for rich people because they will always get back 10 times that much in gifts. Normal people go into debt and don’t even break even buying cocktails and rubber chicken for 100 guests who have nothing to give them in return. Normal people just assume these rituals are for them but they really aren’t.

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  9. Thanks for posting about this, the ferocity that moms go after me when I bring up this topic, is just as great as scrotes defending their right to groom & rape. It’s important to stay level headed and not take anything as a direct attack when we try to de female socialize. I think lots of women lash out because in their subconscious they know what’s wrong, but if it’s brought to their conscious then they’ll have to self reflect and change their behavior. Something that not many people like to do.

    “criticism of mothers always includes derision and punishment for not being “perfect” mothers or natural caretakers, but where women’s oppressed station ensures that they will not have the resources to mother properly even if they wanted to, including performing self-care so that they are up to the task of caring for others”

    Ah, that old martyr mom complex. Nothing more feminine than to think pain and suffering is empowering/makes you strong. I asked my mom today if she was going to stay home after her vaccine, and she went on a rant about how that’s not how life works and you just pop an advil and keep going. At this point I hope (I know this is cruel to say) that she gets a big enough injury so she’s physically forced to take a break, and maybe have her ‘pain is strength’ delusion snapped.

    “creating a pregnancy would necessarily entail procuring sperm, and that normally means that a male somewhere has achieved orgasm”

    Just jab a needle in their balls, easy peasy. I mean women are stuck in the ovaries for ivf, and men are ~stronger~ then women… so men shouldn’t have any problem with it, right???

    “Mothers think they have a legitimate claim of authority over everyone, including their own children, other people’s children, and importantly over child-free women, who mothers regard as overgrown babies no matter how old or experienced we are. But this claim of authority is not based in anything legitimate, and maternal authority is therefore not a legitimate authority at all.”

    I feel like motherhood is one of the few ways women are shown they can control someone the same way they’ve been controlled all their lives (hi, cycle of abuse). Moms may see child free women as kids, but they STILL expect cfw to spend their time and energy on helping care for kids/elderly. And in my experience will lecture me about being selfish and cold hearted and that I don’t know what love is and I’ll end up alone with cats 🙄.

    “constant, close proximity to men and including being raped by men, is actually extremely traumatizing to women, and trauma often undermines women’s physical and mental health.”

    My mom has suffered utis for years, yet has refused to not have sex even for a while to see if it helps. Like I slapped her by even uttering she stop having sex for a week. It would be funny if it wasn’t so tragic.

    “trauma is known to diminish mental capacity, for example, which actually makes anyone less able to make reasonable choices, less able to accurately or honestly assess their environment and so on.”

    Let’s not forget the LITERAL torture of raising a child, where during the first few years moms are sleep deprived and put under extreme stress & pressure. My mom’s intelligence noticibly dropped after her third kid. If traditionalists have anything right it’s that moms are helped by extended family members.

    Liked by 3 people

  10. This is hilarious, even as he just literally said men are useless parasites, in the next breathe he says the hosts (women) need to come up for new ways to make the parasites life easier.

    Liked by 3 people

  11. My mom always did the “pop an Advil” for menstrual issues. It was for pain, but also to remove the “excuse” of period pain so I could be as productive as men all month long. She actually told me that. She said that her mom never even let her have aspirin for her period pain because “the Curse” was supposed to be painful and that she was in agony and thought there was nothing she could do about it until she was in nursing school and learned she could take something for the pain. So naturally, I was just supposed to pop an Advil because I could, and because it was old fashioned to have disabling periods. Well, I probably have endometriosis, which is AI. (She probably did too TBH). I definitely have at least one large cyst on my left ovary and possibly PCOS. And NSAIDs including Advil make AI worse, and cause GI ulcers, triggering and/or exacerbating Crohn’s. Last time I spoke with my mom before blocking her on my phone, she told me that there was no such thing as a partial disability, and that either I was totally disabled, and needed to be in a nursing home, or I was totally fine and shouldn’t need any accommodations for my illness. I adulted with undiagnosed autism and Crohn’s for 30 years before I got so sick I couldn’t do it anymore. Where is my martyrdom trophy? Oh right, I never had any. lol. Only mothers get martyrdom trophies and the rest of us get to wash mothers feet and tell them how much we appreciate being brought into late stage capitalism with no resources and no support. At least religious freaks have community to support them. Rich people have money, so they don’t need community.

    Liked by 3 people

  12. RFSpiralling: Great comment; thank you for sharing.

    “The unpopular truth is that mother’s devotion to sons is what destroys us all. ”

    YES. What is even more pathetic is that boymoms don’t understand what the hell is going on at a biological level, that the Y hijacks the X in order to replicate itself, overrides the mother’s attempts to put the brakes on its growth so that it can supersize itself, etc. Boymoms are literally generating new rapists, rapists empowered by parasitizing the mother’s resources, who will then go on to parasitize and terrorize other women. And these same boymoms give you a holier than thou attitude when you talk about the universality of male violence. I’ve even had them outright deny to me that men are more violent than women!

    Sunndayxoxo: here’s another example of a scrote admitting exactly what men are, and then in the next breath telling women how to deal with it: “Many men and other animals are very prone to rape females if they feel that there is little cost for doing so, and that it is highly unlikely that this biological tendency can be trained out of people. Therefore, preventing rape must be accomplished by reducing the number of situations in which men are able to use coercive sex without much risk of being punished, recognizing that rape really is about sex and informing men and women about sex differences and the evolutionary origins of sexual coercion. Examples of possible interventions include discussions on how men use alcohol and marijuana as pharmacological tools to facilitate rape; chaperones; and even stronger advice that being alone with a man, particularly after consuming drugs and/or alcohol is a high-risk behavior.” -https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2005/09/20/evolution-not-culture-deserves-blame-for-rape/

    Fucking hell. Since men are the rapists who can’t be trained – maybe *they* are the ones who should be locked up and not allowed to interact with females??

    If men truly cared about women, as they claim to do so, they would provide us with the resources to have a decent sized all female country where those of us who prefer to not live under the constant threat of rape and who dislike wasting time and energy coddling parasites can go live in peace. Of course, scrotes know that an all-female country would advance 100x faster than mixed sex countries and would likely soon become a world superpower, so of course they would never allow this. Men know how powerful women are & they shamelessly use our Gynergy for themselves and their degenerate projects.

    Liked by 4 people

  13. sunnydayxoxo: “I feel like motherhood is one of the few ways women are shown they can control someone the same way they’ve been controlled all their lives (hi, cycle of abuse). ”

    I also wanted to say I have for a long time thought the same. Motherhood is essentially one of the only contexts in which a woman accesses almost total power over another human being, and so provides her with ample opportunity to vent her frustrations about being powerless in all other contexts. I think a lot of mothers abuse their daughters because they like the idea of another woman suffering the way that they have (in addition to their internalized and externalized misogyny – mothers hate their daughters because all male identified women hate other women, and they also see the daughters as themselves to a degree, which manifests the internalized misogyny). Also I think boymoms enjoy being an honorary male through their sons; they get to vicariously abuse, humiliate, objectify, degrade, insult, etc other women through their sons, which is something they never get to do themselves. By having a son she feels she gets to partake in male ‘power.’ (Not really power, just abuse, but male identified women think males have genuine power, sadly.)

    Liked by 3 people

  14. About extracting sperm with a syringe, there is an issue with reproductive technology in that it is (or always has been, so far) patriarchal but also tends to create male fetuses for whatever reason. That’s why lesbians who do IVF almost always end up with boys and making excuses for boys. Women also are not interested in torturing males, and that would probably include sticking needles in their testicles. I was thinking whether it is even possible to make male orgasms unpleasant for males, and it probably is, except that if it was painful, degrading or whatever, the men would just like it more, lol. They are irredeemable really, but we already know that. Reproduction is a real problem, if we are concerned about the species. I am not concerned about the species. I think we are a lost cause, because of males.

    Liked by 5 people

  15. And they act like popping an advil also suddenly gives you energy back, fucking hell atleast the 50s housewives had Speed and Coke. I wonder how bad period huts actually are? I’d take fasting for a week and digging my own shit holes if it meant I could relax and everyone would fuck off. Maybe there should be a new movement of women here fucking off to huts for their periods… Of course libfems would say that’s internalized misogyny since 3rd world women are forced into period huts, so they must be exactly the same!

    Did she also say to take a huge cup of coffee with that? Mine gets so angry when I tell her caffeine just makes me shit myself. Were meant to keep drugging ourselves to keep up with capitalism and males demands, of course.

    I’m angry just reading about your mom, what a POS. Well atleast she was honest with herself and acknowledged what a POS she is.

    I know it’s reactionary to blame moms for birthing and raising unhealthy kids, knowing full they’ll always be ill, but it always makes me fume. Truly living in a half death cult world.

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  16. Check out rwanda, most of their males died and they’re developing so quickly now. I hope they stay off the radar and can quietly come into their power, I’d love to see it.

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  17. You explained it way better than me, moms definitely despite their daughters like they despise themselves.

    I think there was a saying like: the dad beats the mom, the mom slaps the kids, and the kids kick the dog. All that negative energy generated by their crippled Y has to go somewhere.

    Liked by 4 people

  18. Cannabis: “also tends to create male fetuses for whatever reason”

    Don’t know if you’ve seen this or not, but in case you haven’t: https://www.bbc.com/news/health-11419466

    However, in the US there is now a preference for daughters over sons.

    Also, “Many fertility doctors say that girls are the goal for 80 percent of gender selection patients. A study published in 2009 by the online journal Reproductive Biomedicine Online found Caucasian-Americans preferentially select females through PGD 70 percent of the time. Those of Indian or Chinese descent largely chose boys.” -https://slate.com/technology/2012/09/sex-selection-in-babies-through-pgd-americans-are-paying-to-have-daughters-rather-than-sons.html

    Liked by 2 people

  19. I think I read before that when women in america/canada choose ivf they pick female babies 3/4 of the time? But yeah you do get male babies more with ivf. I don’t think that’s a mistake, pretty sure they hide how to make more female babies because then they’d have to admit that y is a parasite.

    I’m not concerned either, would much rather let the species die out than continue to dig a deeper cesspit. I’m just sad that we will probably never get to experience a parthogenisis world with no men.

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  20. “In general, Americans — especially men — have been more likely to say they want a child of their own gender. In the 2011 Gallup survey, 31 percent of women wanted a boy and 33 percent a girl, while 49 percent of men wanted a boy and 22 percent a girl. ”

    “Unmarried fathers are less likely to marry pregnant mothers if an ultrasound shows that the baby is a girl, and parents of daughters are more likely to divorce.

    More proof that men want to replicate their degenerate Y above all.

    “There’s been a much more complete gender revolution for women than for men,”

    “Now that girls play sports and do other things that used to be considered masculine, fathers might feel more of an affinity for them. Stereotypes about what boys spend their time doing have not changed as much. ”

    These libfem takes on gender are so stupid. Women are the original, the complete; it is males who have for thousands of years held women back from doing all the things women are capable of doing. Males, on the other hand, have parasitized or outright stolen all of women’s accomplishments, which is why there is nothing for them to ‘evolve’ into; we are now simply starting to see their natural state of being when they no long have women as hosts and shields and props.

    Liked by 4 people

  21. “Patients should certainly not consider using this as a method of trying to have a boy or girl, since the procedure used needs to be selected to try and maximise the chance of pregnancy.”

    Hahaha! Well of course parasites would want to make more parasites, and yell ‘eugenics!!’ if you so much utter that parasites be denied the right to be replicated.

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  22. sunnydayxoxo: “Check out rwanda, most of their males died and they’re developing so quickly now. I hope they stay off the radar and can quietly come into their power, I’d love to see it.”

    I’d love to read more about this; any articles you recommend?

    If women just withdrew from men completely, they’d all rape & kill each other and the XY population would be naturally reduced that way (which is what happens in nature… I think another reason men hate Nature is that it tells the truth about males… that they are disposable, expendable, and either completely unnecessary or very nearly so)

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  23. I was hesitant to write this post. I should’ve known you all would be able to handle it lol. Thank you for reading and engaging with this material, and not being reactionary. I am enjoying the conversation, please keep posting em if you got em. ❤

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  24. The are just devolving now. Women can see it even through our brainwashing. Atleast men were made useful in past generations, do labor, bring money, die and give his business to the widow, die in wars. Nowadays they’ve convinced women to split bills, work us harder than men have ever worked but for less pay, demolish any female community with nuclear family and having to move for jobs, save money by making the wife be his whore instead of visiting a prostitute, etc.

    Not to mention boys not even bothering to put in the little effort to study for a system that guarantees them a job via boys club. They just sit on videogames and porn. I hope mothers snap on their useless sons.

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  25. Libfem gender-takes are ALWAYS stupid! It makes me stupider for at least an entire day every time I read anything a liberal feminist has to say about gender. Oh my God, how can they stand themselves. The stupid, the spinning, the reaching. It really hurts, you know?

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  26. I don’t remember what I’ve read sorry, but pretty sure there’s some articles and vids if you Google. Actually maybe use duckduckgo search engine, pretty sure some males would get triggered by rwanda and censor the searches.

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  27. I think that authoritarian and hierarchical thinking has already poisoned the well past redemption.

    I have often thought that, if every single XY dropped dead, that women at the top of patriarchal hierarchy would just step into the void and automatically form essentially the same hierarchy, with the same rule, the same control of resources, the same paternal style rule. It would just be maternal, due to lack of penis.

    It takes a kind of rigorous self awareness and understanding of our position to undo what all of us have internalized due to the mass grooming/indoctrination. At the core of that are the concepts of “deserving” and “worthy”, that are male created, but enforced by almost everyone (at least in the states).

    Who is deserving of food? Healthcare? Privacy? Autonomy?

    Who is worthy of safety? Good education? Comfort? Stability?

    Patriarchy values mothers, who are deserving and worthy of things that child free Women are not. Especially mothers of sons. Which is crazy stupid, right on its face, since pregnancy is essentially a dice roll, a gamble.

    Too many women have fallen into thinking that not all women are deserving of privacy, worthy of autonomy, that basic necessities are to be earned by being found to be worthy or deserving. And it’s always someone at the top of the hierarchy that finds themselves to be deserving of everything, while deciding that those at the bottom always fall short and deserve only scraps, is anything at all. It’s disgusting.

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  28. Cannabis: “Women also are not interested in torturing males,”

    Hey, CRE, speak for yourself. 😂

    Kidding aside, it’s interesting how women, when they’ve shed the layers of male identification, really just want to have nothing to do with men. We are not even interested in making them useful to any degree. We see them for what they are – a parasitic entity to be avoided. That males feel the exact opposite about females – wanting to exploit us as much as possible and in every way possible – demonstrates the parasite/host relationship, even without any knowledge of the underlying biological conditions upon which this whole degenerate system is based.

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  29. It is disgusting. Thank you for that. If all males dropped dead tomorrow, it would be mothers getting together and spreading all the wealth amongst themselves, wouldn’t it. Everyone else, including ADULT child free women, would get an allowance if and when we cleaned our rooms, lol. Did you see Bill and Melinda Gates’ separation announcement where they said their org has been helping people in undeveloped countries lead productive lives? FUCK YOU, BILL. FUCK YOU, MELINDA. Productive lives! According to themselves. As you mentioned somewhere, if the Gateses divested themselves of their atrocious, embarrassing wealth, everyone would be taken care of and no one would ever have to work again. Productive lives! OMG. BTW after the apocolypse comes, if you are ever walking in the woods and see an exhaust pipe sticking out of the ground, please pee in it and tie it off with a plastic bag. That’s the rich people living in bunkers while the rest of us eat our own feet to survive. Fuck them. Literally piss on them, and cut off their oxygen. They don’t deserve it.

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  30. Period huts are essentially moving individual women into isolation so males can rape them.

    For all of the bullshit that males spout about menstruation being dirty, they absolutely do not hesitate to rape the menstruating women and girls in the huts. Once again, this is just one more male created female prison that facilitates rape.

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  31. Ah, now there’s a thought. I suppose we would want to know what killed them, in order to know whether we wanted their nasty sperm or not, and whether we wanted to propagate their degenerate genes or not. Would women really want to be handling dead men’s dicks and balls tho? I’m not so sure. You are right about what that means, tho, and it means that males are barely necessary for anything, even their sperm.

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  32. X survives and grows on its own, Y is just a parasite that takes over, much like cancer.

    Also, males are opportunists. Their entire existence rests on penis. They are constantly looking for opportunity.

    I read a story a while back about 2 teenage boys walking through a graveyard that had been disrupted by an earthquake, or something like that. As they were walking, they saw a crypt that had busted open, and 2 legs sticking out, in a skirt.

    They proceeded to drag the corpse of an old woman out of her coffin and rape her.

    That’s what teenage males will do when they see a female corpse. It’s a hole, an opportunity for rape.

    Can you imagine teenage girls doing something like that?

    Males: Ew, I would never rape that ugly, old woman, she is unrapeable! She isn’t my type! Ick!”

    Also males: *rape babies, animals, toddlers, each other, holes in public restroom walls, Women in a coma, etc. etc.”

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  33. At the risk of sounding overly dark, dead males are the best males most of the time.

    I don’t handle any dick and balls, and I can’t think of a scenario where I would be even mildly interested in doing that. Like, literally any other activity before dick and balls.

    It used to be that I never heard Women talking about propogating humans, it was only ever males having a crisis about humans dying out, I have never understood this obsession that males have with making sure there are people on the planet. Do they think that they are so memorable that no one will ever forget them? What is it? It’s so odd, but expected of the lesser sex that lacks the ability to create all of the people who have ever existed.

    But I have seen women spouting that shit lately. I don’t get it.

    Cannabis. You are my sister, there are many, many things that I would do for you. But if all xy drop dead and you want some sperm, I will just apologize in advance for not being involved in that. (Not that you would want sperm, or ask for my help, if you did, just making a point that I wouldn’t do that, not even for you.)😋

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  34. Hard pass on the dick and balls, and the sperm. lol. No thanks. Propagation of the species is always there as an issue whenever anyone even broaches the topic of PIV, or the apocalypse, or anything. It’s always there. Which means that the threat of rape is always there. Joanna Russ wrote a short story about a post-patriarchal world where rape did not exist, and a small group of enlightened, post-P women and men were traveling thru space and crash-landed on a planet with no hope of being rescued. And they would all be dead within a couple of months because they had no supplies and that timeline was a given, with no possibility of changing it. Rape immediately came back on the table. One of the women fixed her hair and face and went off behind a sand dune with the man she found most attractive, because if she didn’t, she would’ve been raped anyway by someone else (or by him). Even though they would all be dead in 3 months or whatever, including any fetuses. It was so depressing, but entirely accurate. Which was the entire point. Joanna Russ was a genius.

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  35. And now I’m trying to recall if I’ve heard females talking that way, or just males. I don’t hang out in mainstream spaces anymore, so it’s been awhile. That’s interesting that women are going there now too. It’s like they know it’s coming to that. Women are ALWAYS raped in the apocalypse, it’s why I can’t watch apocalyptic movies anymore. It’s just rape, rape, rape, cannibalism, pillage, rape.

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  36. For me I can’t be bothered much to be angry at mothers because I just don’t interact with them. I guess I have questions for CRE and others in the comments about that. Like… who are these mothers that you keep interacting with? What “feminist” spaces are you going into that are being dominated by mothers? I don’t disagree with what y’all are expressing, but I guess I just don’t relate, probably because I don’t interact with child-infested women much.

    I mean, patriarchal women are throughly annoying and enraging (including mothers) in general. But I experience similar “superiority” delusions amoungst women who are male-pleasing in other ways too. Like “educated” women, “proper” women, corporate women, “beautiful” women, liberal (presumably) “ morally superior “ women and so on.

    Truly, I find most women (even child-free ones) to be brain-washed male-pleasing morons. And then mothers are just a step even further down from that.

    It like, if a woman came up to me and had a squid chewing on her brain, and had missing chunks of flesh from her body, and she was acting like she was “superior” to me because she has said squid, and has “sacrificed” flesh to said squid, and is demonstrating loss of basic brain function due to said squid chewing on her brain…… like, this is what mothers look like to me. I cant even be mad, I’m just horrified and can’t manage to articulate anything towards them except “no thanks”. I just recognize that I’m talking to an insane person.

    Liked by 5 people

  37. Your comment went into my spam folder FYI. Idk why bc it didn’t even have a link or anything. So you (we) are still being surveilled, lol. Also, the squid image! That will be burned into my brain forever, so thanks for that.

    Thinking about it, I only know one child free woman in real life. Most places I have been since I’ve been an adult, I’ve been the only child free woman there. I am the only one in my entire family on both sides, except for one of my dad’s sisters who is basically a nun (she is a “church lady” and now is in her 70s, she is my dad’s oldest sibling). So yes she is male pleasing, but she doesn’t directly please the dick. I think that’s important. Like, giving men orgasms and heirs has to be a special kind of male pleasing doesn’t it? And I have a huge family, certainly by today’s standards. My mom’s mom had 6 kids, who all had kids, and my dad’s mom had 5 kids. There are dozens of grandkids and great grandkids on my mom’s side and they keep multiplying. The exponential function is real. The last law firm I was at, I was the only woman lawyer, but all of the support staff had kids. Most of the women attorneys at the firms I interacted with were mothers, or were still too young and were planning to be mothers. A very slim few were older and child free. And the way you can tell is that the child free women tell you directly, and/or the mothers always end up talking about their kids. I guess I’m surprised that you are surprised that any of us is or feels constantly surrounded by mothers bc I have yet to experience the opposite.

    Also, I am talking about authority, and what is legitimate authority. Mothers, more than the other “kinds” of women you mention, have a special claim to authority because they have authority over children. Beautiful, or educated, or whatever women do not claim to have authority over anyone unless they actually have it in some formal capacity. The informal authority of mothers is assumed, and it goes far beyond a superiority complex. My own mother still thinks she has authority over me. My younger sister has one kid and she thinks she is more grown up than I am, lol. Marriage is part of the authority too. I didn’t specifically talk about married or partnered women because unless they have kids it doesn’t really come up. Mothers seem especially prone to this kind of shit. If I wanted to parse marriage, I might say that some married women have the superiority complex you mention tho.

    I don’t hang around with educated people IRL bc I don’t know how to talk to them. The people I know IRL are normal people, and normal women normally have kids as far as I can tell. My one friend I have here locally is only 10 years older than I am, but she is a grandmother who has taken care of her grandkids on and off since they were born. She has 3 living, adult children and 4 grands, all from the youngest daughter. My friend, altho she is a mother, respects me for some reason, which I find uncommon. I think she appreciates that I am educated in this small town, when most people aren’t (she isn’t either although she appreciates education and her mother was a teacher) and that I am a small business owner like she is. Being a small business owner is a lot to have in common, including basic temperment, level of competence, shared experience etc. I appreciate different things about her and I like her personality for the most part. The pandemic has hurt our relationship bc we were good companions and enjoyed doing things IRL like going to the movies. Anyway. She talks about her kids and grandkids a lot. It’s very hard for me to me supportive when she says things like, she doesn’t understand why her daughter is such a terrible mother, when she has been doing it since she was 16 so she should have figured it out by now. What?? Or, that the daughter is crazy and has issues, but those issues have nothing to do with her because they happened a long time ago and she is responsible for her own life. Meanwhile, the son is also crazy and has issues, but my friend continues to coddle him and make sure he doesn’t fail down. And my friend’s husband was abusive to all the kids when they were younger and the grands have accused him of abuse, but she doesn’t believe them. He just got out of jail for shooting my friend’s dog in the head. She didn’t take him back, so that’s good. lol. The other day, I couldn’t take her complaining about her one granddaughter’s behavior anymore, so I sent her links to Bruce Levine and suggested that she read about antiauthoritarians, and that it might help her understand her granddaughter better. Clearly this girl does not “respect” her mother or grandmother like they think they deserve. But letting some abusive dick dragger impregnate you is hardly the grounds for legitimate authority, is it? And that’s basically the foundation of both the mother and the grandmother’s claims of authority over this girl. And I don’t even think my friend is a particularly awful mother, or a bad person. I do really miss sitting in the movies though, and not having to talk. 😦

    Anyway. I guess I’m surprised you are surprised. And to be clear, by own personal beef is not with mothers in feminist space, it’s in real life. The lesbians have talked about the issue in feminist space before, but it’s not a space I occupy except online. And the online radfem group projects I’ve started were not mother-heavy but they did include mothers. And they absolutely required something of the rest of us that I can’t quite name ATM. For sure, if anyone had talked about mothers as if they were squid-food there would have been serious problems.

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  38. The badge of superiority is also covered in condescension from the ruling class.

    Motherhood is the most important job in the world, so long as it is in service to the male creation that is the “nuclear family”.

    Women who have kids when the male chooses to scoot are always slutty sluts who are burdening society with kids, and they are even responsible for males abandoning their male created myth that is fatherhood.

    This is partially why males hate nature and are always destroying it. Nature cut them out. No one needs to know where the sperm came from, everyone knows who the mother is, the sperm donor is so unimportant, nature doesn’t even acknowledge paternity.

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  39. I think that the few women that I have seen who have morphed into the male fear of humanity dying out are conservative, right leaning, and probably christian.

    I think this because they also hate troons. And so a lot of them hang around on gc boards and spaces. A few days ago, some of them started a row on ovarit or spinster about abortion being baby murder, lol.

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  40. I read somewhere recently about how as women age, we attempt to warn younger women because we feel the urge to protect them from male violence and abuse that we suffered through when we were younger.

    Males have twisted this into “karens are just jealous because you young girls are hot and beautiful and we want to fuck you, old hags are envious of the fuckability of younger women”, because males feel no desire to protect young women at all.

    Males are predatory, always. Males were predatory to us when we were younger, and stay predators as long as they live.

    Literally everything gives a male an erection. It’s not like women have a superpower, lol.

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  41. I am always amazed that males have made themselves the default human.

    Every human has an X. Only half have a Y.

    Y can’t do shit by itself, it must parasite onto an X. Not to mention that women actually create people out of their bodies, while males……………well……….they can pee standing up, I guess, way to go, Y chromosome.

    Women are definitely complete. Males are obviously deficient, and they attempt to obscure that by creating every problem and then pretending to be the solution to the problem that they created.

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  42. We are called jealous, when it’s assumed that we were never fuckable, when we aren’t being called hypocrites, because we were fuckable and we got to know men intimately and what they are like and that they aren’t worth it. Sinead O’Connor once tried to tell one of the young women, maybe Miley Cyrus, or someone idk, that she should retain some self respect. OBVIOUSLY there is only ever one way to take that, unless it comes from a nun, and that’s that the woman saying it is a hypocrite. It would help if the older women would finish their fucking thought, which is that men are trash, they aren’t worth it, they will wreck your life and as many female lives as possible, it’s a sport to them, they are walking abortions and should all be killed before they are ever born bc thats the only way to stop their violence. But no one can really say that, can they. I hear it when they say stuff like “respect yourself” but that’s only because I know what they know. Most young women don’t hear what older women are really saying, which isn’t really their fault bc they aren’t mind readers. Maybe if there was a conversation, but there never is, it’s just a reply tweet consisting of JEALOUSAND/ORHYPOCRITE and done.

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  43. First, let me tell you that I don’t see you nearly enough. I miss you.

    I don’t interact anywhere online except for here, and very occasionally, spinster. But I see conversations, I don’t participate.

    I haven’t seen any space that has been dominated by mothers. But conversations about them do arise.

    I participated in a few, on gc reddit, years ago, that I won’t ever forget. One was from a woman who wasn’t a usual member, but she was sent there because her 17 year old son had declared that he was a troon, he was abusing her, but not his “father”, who also lived in the house, he wanted to move to a neighboring state, in with an old troon he met online, and she was trying to stop him because he was going to be 18 in a few months.

    Cue “radical feminist” women advising her to buy him a car, take him on a vacation, hug him more. When I and a few other women said that she should let him move, stop paying for his phone, don’t buy him shit, and pray that he stayed gone until she could legally keep his adult ass out of her house at 18, he was threatening to kill her, ffs, cue mothers handing me my ass, lol, because apparently, I don’t understand how love works, and you don’t stop loving your birthed prince just because he might kill you. In your own house. While his father stands there with his limp dick in his hand, drooling on himself, doing nothing.

    Second wave women created shelters to help us escape an abusive male. But if we give birth to it, we have to love him and stay in physical proximity to him? Because….why now?

    One of the others was a woman who had a son who had started sporting erections, I think that he was 8 or 9, and she said that she took him and her even younger daughter swimming at a public pool, and women in the change room were becoming uncomfortable with him, he was trying to look at the women while they were undressing. She didn’t want to let him go into the male locker room alone because we all know why, but she wanted advice because she wanted to change nothing, but feel like she was being woman centered, or something, I don’t know.

    I have a million of these stories, but I spend a lot of time reading online.

    I thought about something that you said, a long time ago, what I first read some of these comments, paraphrasing what I remember, you said that males commend motherhood and the accolades are dripping with condescension. It’s so true, and I will never see that any other way because it’s so true. It was a real lightbulb moment for me. Thank you for that.

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  44. That basically sums up 4thWaveNow and other GC sites for sure. Just HUG your troon son, and don’t worry, maybe your troon daughter is just a tomboy who will grow out of it, and not a lesbian. Not that GC sites are radical feminist, but they often claim to be at least feminist.

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  45. It’s another form of “show kindness to violent male, maybe your kindness will make him peaceable”.

    Our kindness makes the male dominance easier for the male. How have we all not learned this?

    And I believe that the general policy of all of the “feminist” spaces online is that they don’t seem to know what radical feminism is, but they claim to be run/moderated by radical feminists, but INCLUSIVE of all women. Which causes problems.

    And one of those issues is mothers of sons. If you are a woman that will advise another woman to buy a car for the 17 year old male in her house who is threatening to kill her, you are just a fucking idiot. And if you think that it is a problem that I will tell her to get him out any way that she can, then you are also an asshole.

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  46. Thinking about the authority aspect more, and what maternal authority is really based in. As I’ve said, I think it’s based in, essentially, having let a degenerate male impregnate you, which is hardly a foundation for legitimate authority, at least as we normally think of it. Bruce Levine thinks legitimate authority is based in honesty, knowledge and care (iirc). But the practical aspect of it is, well, who else is going to do it? Men have absolutely no basis whatsoever for claiming authority over children because they are men. Compared to men, women at least have natural law behind them, for one thing, women don’t generally rape babies. And mothers, not fathers, gestated, risked their lives, the elements that the child is made of came from the women’s teeth and bones. So it has to be women who have (take?) authority over children because men can’t by definition. But which women?

    Do child free women want to do it? Some do, but there is no current avenue to really make that happen at scale. So mothers’ authority kind of comes from mothers being the only ones who are showing up to do it. The truth appears to be, mothers are the only ones who even care enough to consistently show up. But that cuts a bit close to the bone doesn’t it. Then we have to start talking about how dangerous the world is for children, how many predators are out there, how few people really care to keep children, especially girls, safe. And that children are actually fortunate to have anyone, a single fucking soul, who even gives a crap, even if it’s just some dumbass who let some tool impregnate her. And then the really gnarly questions come up, like, well why the hell did you have kids anyway, if this is such a horrible place? So mothers’ authority really isn’t legitimate, in any normal sense, they aren’t honest, knowledgeable etc but they are the only thing protecting most children from men. Even if she does a poor job, and the kid is abused anyway, it could’ve always (always!) been worse.

    Antiauthoritarian children might be able to do something with that, and accept mothers’ authority if they knew that, but who is going to tell them? Antiauthoritarian children are currently being medicated and incarcerated for being incorrigible or whatever, if they don’t acknowledge their parents’ authority, but they aren’t wrong. Parents’ authority is fucking dubious as hell. Bruce Levine tries to get parents to understand, in therapy, that antiauthoritarianism isn’t a disease, and so it shouldn’t be medicated. But the nature and legitimacy of parental authority, as far as I know, is never really discussed.

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  47. I think the Slut Hierarchy of patriarchy is as follows: 1) boymoms 2) het married and het partnered women 3) therapists / psychologists. The reason women in the west are not liberated, IMO, despite having all the legal means for doing so, is because therapy and psychology insidiously perpetrate male mindbindings and deliberately stop women from liberation.

    I wish Ovarit would stop calling itself a radical feminist site. They censor anything that is essentialist and they’re pretty anti-separatist as well. I’ve even seen some right wing garbage posted there, like a critique of pornography as harmful because it destroys the nuclear family. Wish they would just call themselves ‘trans critical’ or something and leave radical feminism out of it. r/GC was a complete joke and the new incarnation Ovarit is no better.

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  48. I agree that mothers often act like they have authority over childfree women. It can manifest in subtle ways. 

    I saw this “authority” overtly in my time working in natural childbirth years ago. Despite being “mother-ruled,” that world is patriarchal and hierarchical. The word doula comes from Greek for woman slave, just to give some context. When the moms found out I was childless, they immediately started treating me differently, like one of their kids. But the authority of male obstetricians is rarely challenged on the basis of their inability to give birth.

    Just to add to what’s already been said about motherhood being a means for women to have authority over another person and act out their frustrations on that person: Similarly, status over child-free women is a “privilege” granted to mothers. It’s frustrating that when childfree women point this out or criticize motherhood, it’s interpreted as mother-hating.

    Mothers are treated like shit in many ways. The US is one of two countries in the world with no federal paid maternity leave. It’s insane to expect women to return to work immediately after birth. Hospital births are often horrific violations that some mothers compare to being raped. And then every mothering decision they make is criticized. Moms who object to pharma injections are portrayed as imbeciles. Etc. So moms in places like Ovarit get upset when child-free women say that motherhood gives women special status. Their experience of mother-specific abuse often makes them reactionary to non-mothers saying they have status. I understand why they’re sensitive, but I wish there could be more nuance.

    Both things are true. Mothers are given some rewards and status for being “real women” and fulfilling their patriarchal roles. They are also abused and the reality of their lives is unrecognized and whitewashed. All women are exploited and abused. Moms and childless women just have different experiences. It’s a shame saying this gets labelled mother hating in some circles.

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  49. Thanks CRE for expanding on the explanation of “mother authority”. And actually, the notion of an “anti authoritarian” child clicks for me as well. I understood from a very young age that just because I was forced to obey adults, didn’t mean I had to respect them in my heart, or believe the things they claim about me or the world. Example, I was forced to take medication at 9 years old because I “wasn’t focusing in class”. A random dr “diagnosed” me with ADD (a popular “diagnosis” back in the early nineties) which I did not actually have. No one bothered to look into actual reason as to why I couldn’t focus; like that I was sitting towards the back of the classroom, other students distracting me, being abused at home, lack of nutrition, recent vaccinations or dental work… nope just “take this pill”. But I didn’t like how the meds made me feel. It made me compulsively chew my nails to nubs, and sweat and feel nervous. And Was required get up in the middle of class to go to the nurses office to take my second dose every day, ironically making miss my actually schooling. I told my parents that I didn’t like the way it made me feel. And they insisted that I keep taking it. So my nine year old ass had a major moment of revelation. My teacher, parents, dr, and school nurse all were in collusion in forcing me to take this medication that I KNEW wasn’t right for me. So I just stopped taking it. I still pretended to take it by holding it under my tongue and spitting it out in the bushes on my way back to class (somewhere at my old elementary school there some bushes saturated with Ritalin). My point is, by nine years old, this experience, plus other previous experiences, had lead me to the understanding that none of the adults around me knew what was good for me, and we’re (intentionally or unintentionally) putting me in harms way. And even though, being a sensitive kid, I was too “weak” to rebel out right. Perhaps it was wiser anyway to take the route covert resistance.

    But yes, in regard to “mother authority”. I was scared of my mom, and I even felt sorry for her when I was growing up. But I understood that I couldn’t rely on her to protect me beyond a certain point.

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  50. But also regarding me not relating to your experiences with “mother authority”. Well I’ve thought about it some more. I live in an area (outside of the SF Bay Area) were there are plenty of child-free women. And people who have kids mention their kids from time to time (like it’s a hobby of theirs) but many people here don’t assume motherhood/parenthood to be this big wonderful thing. As much as I can’t stand living in liberal-land, on this is particular subject even average women in liberal areas understand that motherhood isn’t everything, and isn’t for everyone and it doesn’t hold that much water out here in regards to “achievement”. I guess I’m just not surround by these authoritarian mommy types. I even had one woman I was working with who had just her first child (3 mo old at the time) straight up tell me “don’t have kids. It will change everything. It just makes everything so much harder”. In the very least I respect her honesty. Lol

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  51. I think the perks given to mothers are earned, rather than unearned, so I will never refer to them as privileges. That said, it is an “opportunity” to earn perks that child free women never get. The mothers I’ve known don’t talk about motherhood as some wonderful thing either. A lot of them, including my own mother, think that their lives would have turned out better if they had never had kids. These women say that they missed out on “opportunities” in education and/or in the paid workplace and with those opportunities, they would’ve been totally fine and not dependent on government benefits, or on men, or on a low status job to keep them alive and they would’ve been HAPPY! if not for their children. These women often have no fucking idea what it’s like trying to support yourself working for pay. Not consistently, and long term, anyway. I had “opportunities” in education and in the paid workplace and I basically got nowhere. I worked so many low-status jobs being treated like shit, and I assumed that getting educated and getting a “good job” would mean that I would be treated better and that I would be able to easily support myself. But that’s not how it works. Mothers just think they would’ve been welcomed into the “good jobs” if they had finished their education, or gotten seniority or whatever. But that’s just because they are sheltered and never had to find out. Mothers are at least given basic necessities in many places here, by men, or by the government, including divorce settlements, food stamps and cash or rent assistance that they often become ineligible for once their kids age-out. Which is terrifying, and hardly a secure source of income. But at least they get something. Child free women often don’t get anything, and they don’t get the “opportunity” to get anything either. All women are fucked, and fucked over, because this is patriarchy and that’s the number one rule always. Heads men win, tails women lose. Women always lose.

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  52. The idea and plight of antiauthoritarian children is very interesting. Here, we invented ODD (oppositional defiance disorder) to medicalize, medicate and incarcerate children who do not accept the authority of various adults including their own parents. As I have mentioned elsewhere, when I was extremely little, between 3-5, my dad was doing his medical residency and he was extremely sleep deprived. I once had to stop him from putting wart remover drops in my ears, bc he thought they were ear drops. I had to stop him from giving my brother’s heart medicine to my sister bc he didn’t even recognize his own kids. I was laughing both times because I thought he was playing a game with us and that he was just kidding. Both times, he got mad and told me to quit screwing around or whatever, but both times he realized his mistake when I was insistent about it so nothing bad happened. I literally put my hands over my ears, and my hand over my sister’s mouth so he couldn’t poison us. I could’ve been rendered permanently deaf if he had put that corrosive shit in my ears. I wonder how long I would’ve had to cry before anyone realized something was wrong, if he had. Both my parents would’ve probably beaten me before they figured it out. Are those extreme examples? I don’t even know. How many times have parents done this kind of shit on accident and the kid just trusted them? Probably a lot. Maybe that has something to do with my refusal to accept medical authority too, or maybe not. I had plenty of opportunities later in life to just roll over and accept my parent’s and doctors’ bullshit, including what they did to my brother and what they have wanted to do to me but I never accepted any of it. I was forced many times, of course, but I resented everyone who was involved and I still do. Bruce Levine says that people are born antiauthoritarian and they can’t help it. That’s certainly been my experience. I’ve been doing it since I was 3. Thank you for giving additional examples of child antiauthoritarianism, that’s very interesting to me.

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  53. In my life parents have definitely always been the most insane people. No doubt about it. 😆

    I am starting to wonder now if wanting to have kids even after you are old enough to see at least the basics of how bad things are is actually some kind of mental illness in itself. Most people don’t dig too deep, I don’t think, but the massive environmental degradation is a mainstream topic now and we all know things aren’t good. I now have more understanding for why teenage girls and little twenty year olds are able to be tricked into thinking having kids will be great and less understanding why grown women in their 30s and 40s want to bring kids into this still. When I was 19 I was shocked that my friends started having babies already and didn’t wait until they were more grown up and established with a career and house. I thought that was a very old fashioned thing from the past and I did not understand. Now I’m confused why the women my age and older are having babies still knowing how fucked up everything is and being that they are older they will have less time and ability to help their kids do anything, especially with so many having health issues already.

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  54. I feel like there should be a different word for the abuse by proxy that happens in an abusive society through parents who aren’t intentionally abusive but end up acting in abusive ways because they are driven to.

    I was never beaten or molested and wasn’t called names and talked horrible to when I was little. I was always provided with everything my parents could give me and when they afford it they bought me tons of toys and everything.

    But so much of my life was essentially abuse because of how torturous everything is set up. When my mom left my dad and moved here with me we were in such an extreme level of poverty. I read a letter she had wrote to my dad when I was little, that I found after my dad died because he never threw out anything. She said that we needed more help and couldn’t afford food and all we had was bread and peanut butter and that I couldn’t understand why we didn’t have food because I was a very small child.

    My mom’s telemarketing jobs she did when I was in school weren’t enough to support us. She had no one to watch me and childcare was too expensive so when I wasn’t in school I had to go to work with her to her telemarketing jobs on the weekdays and to get flea market job on the weekends. I had to just sit quietly alone through whole workdays as a very little kid and entertain myself with books and magazines.

    When my dad had to move in with us because they were both too poor, I had to listen to them constantly fight. I was around yelling and arguments always. They both got crazier as they got older and I was always there in the middle of it.

    All the stuff I went through in my life certainly qualifies as abuse and neglect. But it’s not the same kind of thing as someone intentionally beating me or berating me or as sexual abuse, like most people would say about being abused. There’s really no word to describe this kind of societally inflicted abuse that happens only because the parents don’t have resources themselves.

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  55. Now my mom has reached such a level of insanity in her elder years, her behavior is so erratic and verbally abusive to me. I am planning to move out of here again and it feels like I am escaping an abusive husband or something. I already escaped once and it has been worse than I ever imagined to have to come back. I feel like I’m not allowed to leave, but also completely unwelcome. It’s a very bizarre feeling. She threatened to drop me off at the homeless shelter so many times, tells me I’m a retard and a bitch and constantly screams about everything, refuses to turn her blaring TV down or close her door so I can concentrate to work, I’m not allowed to do anything in the house. The level of awfulness around how she acted when my cat was sick and died I don’t think I can ever forgive. But when I said before I could move in with my friend’s grandma, after she was threatening to drop me off at the homeless shelter, she said I was abandoning her. I don’t know how to act to make her not act so crazy, because it doesn’t matter how I act. I’m constantly confused what to do to lesson her anger and abusive treatment. When we drive in the car she screams in my ear as I beg her to stop that she’s inflicting horrible pain on me. She actually laughed when she saw my medical tests showing how extremely damaged my spine is because she had been telling me that I’m not actually that hurt and to basically walk it off. It sounds about the same how she doesn’t recognize being partially handicapped in a way. But only things that happen to her are real and important. If I tell her my spine is so messed up I can’t get out of bed, it’s just a mental illness because I’m too young to be hurt. Even when she sees proof instead of apologizing or something she thinks it’s hilarious and laughs.

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  56. To me this all ties in with the assumption that older people have authority over others just for being alive longer, even though being alive longer means they are more likely to have been driven insane and more likely to be accepting of how abusive everything is and willing to perpetuate that abuse onto others. I’ve always found the most abusive deranged people to be at least in their late forties but usually older, the older the worse it gets. Younger people have a lot they don’t know yet but they haven’t been completely broken down and destroyed yet at least. I always wished to have elders to provide guidance and support but there don’t seem to be very many like that. I never got taught much of anything in my life and was just supposed to figure out all out on my own and told I was stupid by not intrinsically knowing everything about how to survive in a complex society with various made up systems. Anything I don’t automatically know that no one ever told me is just a sign of me being a mentally ill retard.

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  57. Once you get older you will see that even women who are very much younger than you are, who have children, also think they are better and more worldly than you, lol.

    My mom has been slurring her speech for 10 years. When I first noticed this, I assumed she was drinking and I directly asked her. I would’ve been happier if she had been drinking bc she said she wasn’t, which raised obvious additional questions. She also seemed completely unaware that she was having neurological problems. I think people are going to be slipping into dementia and whatnot now, and not realizing it. It could be from the vaccines, or from geomagnetic events, or pollution/radiation or anything. If you think your mom is crazy, she really might be. Mine was a flight attendant for awhile and apparently flight attendants and pilots are having issues from radiation exposure now. What a fucking shitshow this all is.

    I spent an hour this morning reading antinatalist reddit, lol. Some antinatalist stuff is interesting to read, if it comes from women. The rest is just sexually active men bawling about women having kids. I do appreciate what the AN have to say about Jordan Petersen lol. JP is a pro-natalist and he says that women who don’t want kids (and feminists) are some kind of genetic freaks or something, I’m not sure what he is basing that on. It might be true, I mean, it’s the norm for most species to reproduce AFAIK. But men have made this world so shit that it’s no longer a very good idea for anyone, especially the children. Apparently JP “debated” some self-important AN guru and people have various opinions about who won the debate. I think the AN guy (Bashar?) was the one who says if any of his harem of women gets pregnant with his child, and doesn’t abort it, that he will murder her. Men are such trash.

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  58. His hands crack me up. This is what the pro-natalist tards think they are pushing back against. Billionaire technocrats and elite rulers with a depop agenda. Why does anyone think there is a depop agenda really? I don’t see it. Making us live as long as possible with terrible illnesses in a poison environment, obviously yes, but depop? I just don’t see it. Not yet anyway. I don’t even know why they would want less people, and not more. More consumers, more labor, more prostitutes, more cannon fodder, etc.

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  59. Lol true, I haven’t really been around women younger than me with kids yet. The truly crazy behavior I’ve seen though is all from my parents and people their age. Younger people suck too but not the same kind of erratic, abusive, and explosive kind of behavior.

    I do agree that people are going crazy from everything and not even realizing it. I honestly treat my mom like a dementia patient already. When she screams and insults and threatens me I try my best to not take it personally and just ignore it. She forgets all about things quickly too and if I am still mad in a little bit at her behavior she says I’m just a bitch. It’s pretty scary and I’m kind of scared of her too. I don’t know how to react to anything anymore. I’ve become kind of numb to it though in a way. It all just is what it is.

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  60. I don’t know if there’s even really much of an agenda at all besides torture and chaos. I don’t think the overlords are going to be able to leave this planet so they’re just killing themselves too. They aren’t smart enough to think that far ahead I guess and men like pain and suffering too much. The AN men just want to find other ways to inflict suffering. Like yeah of course it’s the woman’s fault if he gets her pregnant, just an excuse to be violent.

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  61. CRE:

    > The entire field is so evil.

    Exactly. And yet therapists/psychologists are upheld as the “experts” and “angels” of society. You can’t lead a woman to liberation if you yourself aren’t liberated (or at least mentally de-colonized; that’s about the best we can do given the situation of the world) and yet therapists believe they are directing clients towards “self-actualization.” That so called self-actualizing is just teaching women to endure more abuse and teaching men how to re-gain their abusive privileges. That’s all. Therapists are a bunch of cocksucking male supremacists.

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  62. Also it makes perfect sense that mothers would assert authority over child free women, and would accept the authority of male obstetricians, in a “natural childbirth” context doesn’t it. Because mothers are fundamentally patriarchal, male-pleasing women, just like I said, even if they don’t want to give birth in a hospital. Thanks for the additional evidence. Disgusting.

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  63. Human males are so degenerate & evil they force pregnancies on women even more than male apes and gorillas do to females: “No normal living human female, in a normal life situation,
    keeps having children, year after year, just to watch half of them die before the
    age of twelve. Women normally, and for most of human life on earth, give birth
    to one child at a time (this is what distinguishes Homo sapiens from most
    mammals, except the higher primates and cetaceans); and with intense and
    exclusive maternal care including nursing for three to six years, the mother
    concentrates on raising that one child to a healthy level of independent
    development before she has another baby. Among all “primitive,” primal
    people, this is the normal practice. Even primates nurse one baby for three to
    six years before becoming pregnant again; even apes! No chimpanzee or
    gorilla mother is forced into bearing one baby a year, year after year, it just
    isn’t done!” – Great Cosmic Mother (not a huge fan of the book by the way; don’t agree with her premise, but there’s some good info here and there)

    Sin Bigger, you say in one of your YT videos that parasites get better at what they do as time goes on, and I’ve always thought that was a very astute observation, and explains a lot, both in the evolutionary history of the cursed and irredeemable Y as well as specifically human males over time.

    CRE, did you check out r/Female Antinatalism? It’s way better than the general AN sub, and those women usually focus on misogyny as the root reason for their antinatalism.

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  64. Yeah, the homebirth moms are either conservatives, New Agers, and/ or anti-medical establishment. The more freethinking, non-religious ones will often be aware of patriarchal elements. But most of them, like most moms, still favor their sons over their daughters. I don’t think they’re even aware of how they do that. I think the “gender critical” moms should really have more discussions about becoming aware of their behavior in that way. I don’t see them talk about it much, but maybe they do. I know you can’t do much for how the boys turn out, but they could minimize damage to their daughters by not dismissing and ignoring them in favor of their precious sons.

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  65. RFS: > Also. Wtf with terri strange. Now I am wondering if she has morphed into some kind of conservative troon supporter, lol.

    I have no idea as I never followed TS very closely, but Sekhmet She Owl made an excellent video commenting on the situation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fElqpquOVM

    Speaking of TS, does anyone have a backup of her blog (Arctic Feminist I believe)?

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  66. Wow, ok. Now that I’ve watched Terri’s vid and the response to her vid. I wonder if spending the last year in a face diaper at work, so she could “survive” has softened her up to the other women she always shit on for performing submissiveness in order to earn/survive. Also, no one ever said that trans people don’t exist. What the fuck.

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  67. Can I just say, that the past year has been extremely collectively and individually traumatizing, by design. It might not be the best time to be making decisions to go against everything you once believed. When I am extremely sick, like terrorpain sick, it is my instinct (or something) to want to let go of divisiveness and politics and the things that separate us and be a part of the “human” community. To me, it feels like when you are really little and you explore beyond your comfort zone and get hurt, and you go running to an adult for comfort. They give it to you, and then you get your confidence back to go back out into the world. I mean, my own parents never or rarely performed that function for me, but I am aware that other people’s have, and I have found comfort in other people when I need it. But, there is no “human” community. And the people you might go to for comfort, a lot of the time, are not good people. And just because they have your back for a minute doesn’t mean they won’t throw you under the bus in another minute, because they have politics, too. They aren’t part of a “human” community and neither are you. Trauma can make you feel this connection to “humanity” but I don’t think it’s really real. Or, maybe it could be real, in another time and place, but it’s not real now because of what 10,000 years of patriarchy has done to everyone. Men are benefiting from this pandemic in truly sickening ways, just like men always benefit from trauma. If lesbians (or anyone) are going to start fucking and having relationships with men now, after a year of being severely traumatized, because of this need to be a part of the human community, that is a benefit to males of this pandemic trauma and it is nothing they deserve, and it’s nothing that’s going to be helpful for women. Please don’t do that.

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  68. ‘Another lurid twist of the umbilical noose looms on the horizon: It is
    wrapped in the American neoconservative economic theory called “law and
    economics.” Developed mainly at the University of Chicago’s Law School
    under the aegis of Dr. Milton Friedman and Dr. George Stigler and their
    followers, “law and economics” proposes that all legal questions—including
    rape, murder, adoption, abortion, child custody—can be reduced to the
    economic terms of the free-enterprise market system. That is, all legal and
    moral questions can be economically quantified, and decided—by the law—in
    terms of their monetary value or cost to a society. For example, as “law and
    economics” theorist and author Richard Posner has argued, if a law like the
    “exclusionary rule,” which forbids courts to accept evidence illegally
    obtained, is decided to impose too great a private and social cost on the
    government, then the “exclusionary rule” is not economically viable—and
    should be thrown out of the legal system. Other “law and economics” theorists
    have critiqued antitrust, workers’ compensation, and minimum-wage laws on
    the same basis, arguing the cost to society of enforcing them outweighs their
    overall benefit. In other words, “law and economics” reduces legality to the
    market, and in so doing reduces what we think of as personal and social
    morality to the dollar, as well.’ – Great Cosmic Mother

    Wow, it is SO ironic that a couple of scrotes developed this idea, given that males are INCREDIBLY cost-ineffective compared to females. Just another example of males being completely unable to see outside of themselves. They don’t even know when they’re talking about themselves.

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  69. CRE: totally agree with everything you said.

    >Trauma can make you feel this connection to “humanity” but I don’t think it’s really real.

    I think (for me at least) it’s more like trauma makes you more desperate for support of any kind and that desperation can override other factors like keeping behavior in-line with your politics, personal ethics, etc as well as self-protection. That’s why women are deliberately kept vulnerable – economically, physically, spiritually, etc; it makes us much more vulnerable (and more compliant to) male predation.

    It takes a LOT of self awareness to be a separatist – one needs to be able to precisely parse out where the needs, desires, etc are coming from and then figure out how to get those met in a way that is not, in the long run, out of line with one’s politics. And one has to be aware of all the ways the system (men, I should say) are trying to prevent one from being self-sufficient, and what personal vulnerabilities (traumas) compound those factors. The patriarchal system is all the time trying to lead us to PIV/subordination to men/male predation (or die if we refuse); it takes constant vigilance to stay safe and stay separate.

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  70. Hello, CRE! I just have to say your blogs are a goldmine, and I don’t have a lot to add to this post save that the ruling classes have long known that the family is the first and hardest lesson in authoritarianism and that having a child is the best way to tie a person down, and force trust into for their institutions, especially a woman, to make the parents more controllable. I think in some countries the ruling class don’t even need more workers anymore, they just need women to continue birthing so they could keep them under their thumb with the eternal craze of family, ‘our children’ and so on. For example, that’s how they keep the recent civil unrest in Russia under control – every school and college suddenly had mandatory ‘just sit in the goddamn classroom’ ‘lesson’ on sundays vaguely at the times of protests, and they had mandatory parent calls and meeting warning them that they and their kids will go to prison if the kids were suspected at being at the protest instead of school. And the trauma too, most older people fear the repeat of the chaos of the 90s more than any tyranny and react very negatively to youth ‘rocking the boat’.

    I also wonder what is it with Bev, I don’t know much about Terri or her, but I either hear that Bev is one of the greatest feminists ever or is incredibly toxic.

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  71. * with the eternal craze of our children being under some kind of threat, all the time. If you have a dependent like that, you are forced to trust patriarchal institutions, like one is forced to trust their parents to take care of their needs, one is forced to trust a husband to provide in a very traditional nuclear family, like one is forced to trust a doctor who’s immediately operating on you with your skin split open. There are multiple institutions a woman with a small child has to trust – the medical establishment to keep it non ill, the police to keep her and the baby apart from even worse men, everything – for years of stress and in great intensity of fears and vulnerabilities. A lot of older women, even if they aren’t particularly subservient to husbands, have a kind of trauma bond towards government’s patriarchal institutions, and of course try go force their daughters to obey too.

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  72. This conversation is really helping me mentally separate from parents and mothers. I always thought of mothers as being just like me, only with kids, but I don’t think that’s true. I think parents and mothers are really very different from me, or at least, antiauthoritarians are very different from them. The world really does feel like it’s run by parents. I’ve never felt so separate from them as I do right now. It’s really interesting.

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  73. > This conversation is really helping me mentally separate from parents and mothers.

    Most of my comments were not particularly relevant, so I appreciate your tolerating and publishing them, but I wanted to say that I’m glad to hear this because Cannabis, Femonade, you are an absolute legend. Your writings have helped so many women and I can personally attest to how powerful they have been in shaping my feminist consciousness. Your posts on PIV and the deliberateness of patriarchy are coming to mind at the moment but there are countless others. Frankly, if I say anything insightful it could very well be a regurgitation of something *you* had said years back. Cheers to you.

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  74. Thank you for reading. I typed out a reply to your comment about trauma making you desperate, but my reply didn’t post. I think you’re exactly right about the desperation overriding self-protection interests. When I was so desperate for help that I literally begged my parents to help me, their responses were so disgusting and hateful that all my reasons for leaving my family as soon as I possibly could were completely validated, like I knew they would be. I said, look, someone needs to step up and help me, and I was just stating a fact, but they were still in their politics or whatever, of blaming people for their situations. I’m not sure I would’ve even bothered if I hadn’t had these cats to take care of, because I was seriously in imminent danger of being homeless with 2 cats and that was a particular hell I had never experienced before bc it was always just me. So I kind of get what parents are on about, with having dependents and being more willing to eat shit than you might normally. Having kids must be an absolute nightmare. But I’ve never made my cats eat shit, have I. Nor would I, nor could I, because they are cats. Parents make their own kids eat shit all the time. The absolute disgust I feel for parents at this point probably cannot be measured. Thank you for your comment.

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  75. Amargi, wow that economic law stuff is fucked up. We really always have been just numbers to them of how much of whatever resource they can get from us. It just boggles my mind when I think about how most women see them as competent leaders. I had no idea how evil men were when I was younger but I always knew they were dumb and it seemed like it should be very obvious to anyone watching.

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  76. I think Bev Jo has a lot of interesting stuff to say, but also a lot of toxic stuff. It all seems judgmental to an extreme where I can see it being enough to drown out the good stuff she has to say for a lot of people reading it. But I also think that too many people will often disregard everything someone has to say just because of not agreeing with them on some things.

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  77. My kitties have kept me going too. I often think I would have given up years ago without them. Especially Cleo, I’ve never had anyone look out for me as much as she does. I think she takes care of me way more than I take care of her. Everytime I am feeling too bad to handle and break down crying or get overwhelmed she comes and snaps me out of it and won’t leave until I tell her I’m okay. She follows me a lot and often checks on me to make sure I’m okay. She watches the outside and always listens for anything weird to make sure her family is safe. I can’t let such angels down by giving up, I have to take care of them. Whenever I think humans are hopeless I think we must not be that bad for such perfect beings to love us so much.

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  78. I believe a “human community” could be possible in another reality when we haven’t been through all this. There was some moment in our past where we just got too many males and it’s like that moment set in motion this likely unstoppable exponentially increasing cycle of their proliferation and the destruction they cause. I do think small communities are still possible though but it’s difficult for anything to work anymore with so much collective trauma.

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  79. Thank all you ladies for being so politically incorrect. 😘 I’m really tired of women acting like they want to have free thought and talk about everything without censorship and then telling me I’m offensive or some shit. They can have an echo chamber pretty much everywhere. 🙄

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  80. I agree. I lost a long time Patron in the last day or 2. People’s finances are really up in the air rn, so I generally won’t make any assumptions, but this was a $1 Patron who has been supporting me for several years. $1 pledges are a symbolic gesture in the first place, aren’t they, so did she symbolically withdraw her support over this post/convo? It’s happened before. Terri Strange publically shit on me and symbolically withdrew her support (also $1 pledge) a couple of years ago over something I said on this blog. Now she feels bad for hurting people’s feelings, lol. Does that include me, or is she just apologizing to all the troons she has insulted over the last 10 years? Who knows. I was actually impressed that I only lost 1 Patron over this post. People just cannot talk about mothers and motherhood without heavily catering to mothers’ needs. I almost didn’t even write this, but I’m glad I did bc as I said, I found the convo extremely mentally freeing. So thanks to all the women who commented here, and expounded on the concepts, I really appreciate it. ❤

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  81. You have my support for whatever it’s worth. ❤️ Speaking your mind is mentally freeing! Even if people get pissed off about it. Otherwise we’re never able to fully think things out all the way. There’s always a roadblock.

    It seems people can’t talk about much of anything that someone else has different thoughts than them. Motherhood yeah that’s for sure a huge one. It seems like more women would be angry at their own mom’s though. Idk I definitely am.

    I was reading some of Bev Jo’s stuff and she said that you said some kind of anti lesbian stuff. I think I’ve read all of your stuff or at least the majority and I can’t imagine where she could have got that from. You don’t even really say much about lesbians. You’re mostly talking from your perspective and you were dating men and learning things from that. I feel like some people just think anyone talking about anything that isn’t about them is offensive somehow.

    Do you even know what her or Terri Strange got mad about or they are just randomly coming up with stuff to get mad about? That’s what it seems like people do.

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  82. Terri said I had a “loser attitude” when I was discussing all the benefits stuff and how hard it is to survive being sick. As if it’s my attitude that’s the problem. lol. Also, see how she feels after she’s done it for 30 fucking years like I have. Someone once gave me some good perspective on Bev Jo, which I appreciated, which is that Bev Jo is an old lesbian who writes on her own blog, and there aren’t very many of those. So I don’t concern myself with her anymore. She has been shitting on me for 10 years. Let her.

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  83. Lol it’s definitely just bad attitude that makes things hard for people. Just like how all the billionaires practice positive thinking and that’s the only reason why they have everything. 😂

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  84. A lot of people, including witchy people, believe in “attitude” attracting/influencing things, and self-fulfilling prophesies and whatnot. I think they have the cause and effect reversed. I think people are somewhat psychic, and they often know what’s coming on some level. When it happens, it’s bc it was always going to happen unless something drastically changed, and most people are not able to drastically change their material circumstances enough to avoid things that they know are coming. I’ve written about that before. It looks like “magic” to most people, in the sense of foretelling the future, but really it’s just extreme rationality. It looks like magic to people who don’t understand it, which most people don’t. Just like technology looks like magic to people who don’t understand what it really is. I was telling people FOR FUCKING YEARS that I was headed down a terrible road once I got sick and that I was going to need help. No one believed me. DUH. Fucking dumbasses. What did they think was going to happen? I once saw a documentary about a young autistic boy who started telling his parents when he was like 8 that he would end up eating out of bins (aka dumpsters). His parents kept assuring him that would never happen. But of course that could happen! It happens thousands of times a day all over the world! It’s maybe even especially likely to happen to this kid bc his autism is probably going to make him unable to consistently support himself, and he is SO unbelievably annoying that everyone except his parents quickly end up hating him. Do they think they are going to live forever and support him forever? If they think that, they are obviously way dumber than he is. I’ve also read that chronically ill people are less optimistic generally than normal people. Which makes sense, doesn’t it. I think we know what’s coming on some level and how hard it will be to stop it. I know I always did, even when I was very young.

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  85. That definitely makes sense. There’s a saying I heard something like if you can understand enough of the variables that are happening you can predict the future.

    I do think we have some power of our thoughts and will to change stuff also, like I’ve talked about that before, but people waayy over exaggerate it. How they act it’s like you just wish for what you want and it magically happens. The reason it “magically” happens for the people who are the ones the most behind these ideas is because they already have the resources to back it up.

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  86. Also, the New Age law of attraction stuff I think gets it wrong in a similar way. I imagine that the “positivity” stuff came from somewhere at some point, but that something was lost in the translation, which often happens bc language is so ambiguous. I think “positive” in that context probably refers to truth, in a true/false positive/negative 01010101 binary programming kind of way. If it matters at all, and it might not, I think that really internalizing and externalizing truth is more important than being “positive.” In fact, that kind of toxic positivity falls on the false/negative side of the spectrum (or binary, really) because it isn’t real. How funny would it be if being “positive” was actually negative (aka false), and all these New Agers are actually being negative when they think they are being positive and drawing good stuff toward them lol. No wonder no one is getting anywhere. The rich people are rich and everyone protects them, it doesn’t even matter what they think.

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  87. Yes I remember you talking about that before and I’ve thought about it a lot. I agree that’s one of the biggest issues is the false positivity that has become so normalized that has nothing to do with reality. It goes hand in hand with the mass drugging. Any “bad” thoughts aren’t allowed. Which means nothing ever changes. Why should it if it’s already all great and positive?!

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  88. Wow yes that’s interesting isn’t it. And even less woo-woo than I was being. Just on a practical level, of problem solving, how can you possibly solve a problem if you can’t even recognize one when you see it? That reminds me of a running gag on King of the Hill where John Redcorn is in a heavy metal band and their only song is about money lol. “I want money! For the things I wanna buy!” He is also a “new age healer” and Native American. The white guys writing KotH obviously have no business making statements about Native Americans, or writing Native characters. The jab at New Age however was apt. I don’t know how self-aware any male writers can possibly be, but if they were really smart maybe they recognized that John Redcorn was really a colonizer’s completely wrong interpretation of Native culture, and that “I want money!” is what white people hear when they are exposed to Native or ancient cultures that are really talking about truth, or something like it. Or, maybe they were just writing John Redcorn as a basically normal American. I think I just heard 3 more Patrons leaving lol. Idk I’m just talking here.

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  89. This doesn’t have anything to do with anything except that it just came up on my feed. I sometimes watch this channel, it’s a charity farm somewhere in the UK, possibly Wales. Aren’t the pigs glorious? I love all their animals but the pigs are just fantastic. Sometimes they walk around with other animals on their backs. The baby goats love to play on the pigs and emus, I can’t tell how the pigs and emus feel about it. Every morning they film their “morning rush hour” when they open the barn door for the day.

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  90. Uh oh you mentioned race 😮 cancelled! 😂 I got cancelled for “racism” before because I said the way that race is talked about is way too simplistic and doesn’t really make sense for a lot of it. Like people act like every single person considered non white has to deal with racism and can relate to all this stuff and also that it’s like every white person is practically raised by the KKK or something. I said how my Puerto Rican ex boyfriend who was very privileged coming from a well off middle class family and lived in very mixed areas (here and in new Jersey) never experienced racism before and couldn’t relate to any of that. Race stuff was just a joke to him, he didn’t care about it at all.

    And I had only ever experienced racism as being “old people occasionally making weird comments that we would laugh at.” No one ever taught me racist stuff. Everything that is taught here is all about diversity and acceptance. Someone really racist would be an outcast even if they never mentioned it because they wouldn’t be able to find a “pure” friend group.

    Plus everyone’s so mixed that we don’t even fit into categories anymore. People obviously don’t even see me as white and I get asked all these weird questions about where I’m from and called exotic. They usually think I’m Hispanic. The racists wouldn’t consider me pure enough.

    I mean I guess that totally sounds like the same thing as hating people of different races. 🙄😂 Everyone’s just looking for a reason to get mad at something.

    Also I just got cancelled for saying that I don’t believe sexual orientation is something we’re all born with like they say. It’s more complicated than it being just a “choice” but I don’t think we’re all just programmed a certain way from birth. I definitely now see my interest in men as socially conditioned with how much social pressure is put on us to like them and how much my mom obsessively told me how not gay I am and I have to like boys. I have no idea if my interest in women is constructed too from seeing sexy women images everywhere. Would I be interested in having sex with anyone if I was only raised around elderly nuns? I have no idea. But not allowed to talk about it! Cancelled!

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  91. Progressives support white male troons in women’s shelters and prisons. That tells me all I need to know about how serious they are about racism. I don’t even know what else to say about it besides that. Reparations would be nice. For women, obviously, since we all know what men do when they have money.

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  92. They wanted to talk about blackpilled radical feminism, no censorship talk about stuff considered way too extreme anywhere else, but I’m still “offensive.”

    Also they said that I was always just a lesbian and being with a man was comphet if I don’t still like them now. But I was being “offensive to lesbians” saying that sexual orientation isn’t something you’re completely born with. Am I being offensive to myself??? What’s that mean?

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  93. BPF on Saidit? I got some traffic from there the other day, on this post, so I followed the link in my stats and I read a little bit over there. TBH it sounded like a bunch of trolls taking the piss. There was one thread that directly said that’s what BPF has turned into. It used to be much more interesting iirc. Were they talking about gold star lesbians? Innateness is very difficult to prove one way or another. I put in a lot of hours proving that male violence was innate. And in that instance, it was a matter of getting to a reasonable degree of certainty, so that I could make decisions based on what was likely true. Like, after I was about 80% sure, that was good enough. And I get really annoyed when people who haven’t done the work say its definitely nurture and not nature. Has someone done the work to show that sexual orientation is probably innate? From a feminist perspective? Maybe they have, IDK. Maybe you were entering the discussion at the end, lol. It’s hard to say. But “offending” groups of people isn’t a good reason to not explore something IMO. Isn’t offense kind of irrelevant? Don’t we care more about the truth and less (or not at all) about offense? I’m offended when people thought terminate women. I’ve had people tell me that I was offending dead people on this blog before, lol. How anyone knows, or why anyone cares, about what’s offensive to the dead I have no idea. That was obviously meant to shut me down. I can’t really speculate what was going on in the conversation you were having. Maybe it’s not the right place for you, if you all fundamentally disagree on something you think it extremely important. Not everywhere is the right place for everyone.

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  94. No it was discord groups, I’ve never looked at said it before. It was cool before but now it’s pretty much died after all the arguing.

    Oh my god yes the thought terminating is what I find offensive too. Women want to have places to expand our minds but then they limit it? Why bother? I’m still upset about it.

    How the fuck is talking about yourself and your own experiences and stuff in general supposed to be offensive to someone else because they make it about them? Yes, they were “gold star” lesbians and they were born perfect and I’m just an offensive dummy I guess. 😂

    I feel like I’m too old to be offended at this point. I don’t give a fuck. I want consciousness raising and expanding my mind.

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  95. No their only “proof” that it’s innate is brain scans supposedly being different done by super smart Real Male Scientists. And the whole thing was just to shit on me for saying something to a woman saying she wished she wasn’t heterosexual because men are terrible and wanted to be a lesbian. I said that she can’t really know how she would feel if not for the constant societal brainwashing and that a lot of women eventually lose sexual interest in men after learning what they are like and I’ve talked to other women saying the same thing. Also that if she’s never considered the possiblity of being with a woman because of seeing herself as “born heterosexual” she doesn’t really know how she would feel about that either.

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  96. Maybe you and the other comphets, wannabe lesbians, celibate hets and whatnot can make your own space where you can discuss stuff like that. TBH I think that gold star lesbians are a unique group and that maybe the rest of us should expand our consciousnesses away from gold star lesbians, who are often Butch lesbians and frankly are untainted by men in some pretty important ways. I think that matters, like, a lot. And I think there aren’t very many of them, and there aren’t very many of them that are prolific writers. I think it’s important that they are out there speaking, and be-ing, and that getting into these pissing matches with non-GSL is a drain on their energy. I want them to keep their energy because GSL honestly are very important. They are the only women, and I do mean the ONLY ones, that have ever successfully kept *any* resources away from men. If it weren’t for them, men would have literally everything, and access to everything else bc they steal from women. GSL don’t let men steal from them. They are the only ones. I am sure there are women who would disagree with me, but please, just leave GSL be.

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  97. I wasn’t even talking to them I was talking to this one woman who was super sad and lonely talking about how she wanted to be in love with someone but men were all terrible to her and was talking about “being born heterosexual” like she was born with a curse. And I wasn’t allowed to talk to her in the group because talking to someone else was offensive to them. They weren’t out speaking anywhere, they’re 20 somethings not letting other people talk to each other.

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  98. Maybe they don’t have good boundaries, and are not protective of their own energy, but you can help them with that. I’m glad you were trying to help a woman who was sad and lonely. Can you maybe start a different group or speak with her privately? TBH het women who are sad and lonely really aren’t GSL’s problem. I can’t even probably imagine how sick they are of hearing about that.

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  99. It drained my energy :/ I was trying to help this woman my age who was feeling bad like she had some horrible curse or defect or something by liking men and she was confused and questioning her sexuality and these 20 year olds got upset that we were talking about something that they didn’t agree with.

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  100. I mean they made it their problem though 🤷🏻‍♀️ like no one was talking to them and they saw someone say that some people feel differently about their sexuality over time and that was enough to get upset about and people can’t talk to each other that has nothing to do with them. If they wanted an all forever lesbian only group they could be in that. I’m feeling really frustrated with people.

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  101. 20 year olds lol. Why are you even talking to them in the first place? They probably don’t know what the hell they are even talking about. Young people are very authoritarian these days honestly. The last of the “do your own thing” messages in pop culture stopped in the 70s. You should protect your energy too.

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  102. Yes exactly I was trying to talk to this woman my age and these 20 something year old couple got mad that they know everything in all their 20 wherever years and everyone else who disagrees with them is dumb and not even allowed to talk to each other. It was frustrating.

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  103. I mostly gave up talking to other people besides these blogs now. Other places are too crazy and the young women are too authoritarian and you can’t say anything around them, even to other people, that they don’t like. Facebook is pretty crazy too. There’s lots of arguments. I very rarely get in internet arguments and feel really dumb when I do but I did get sucked into a fb argument when this woman said being vegan is “privileged” and I said that meat is more expensive and historically been reserved for the upper class and she kept arguing with me.

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  104. IDK how discord works, can you put them on ignore? Still, I’m happy for them that they are GSL (so far :/) and that they are…confident? I guess? Maybe they will take that confidence and blast some troons with it, or go after some overly confident 20 yo males. If they want to use their Big Medicine Brain Scans evidence against some overly confident male who will believe them, bc they are all authoritarian in the same way, then I will be happy that they emasculated some 20 yo male. It’s just my opinion obviously, but please just leave them be. Maybe they will grow up some day and be less annoying.

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  105. I’m not doing anything to them to leave them be. Lol I don’t know what you think I’m doing. I was trying to talk to another woman and they got involved and got upset. Then everyone argued and that was it. I gave up trying to make anyone feel better or have different perspectives. It’s too much trouble.

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  106. I just stay to myself too. I only comment here and at RFS’s blog and maybe a few times a month I will read something somewhere else but I hardly ever participate. My comments weren’t even showing up on YouTube for awhile, but I was able to comment there today.

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  107. Lol I just commented on YouTube today too. On Black Obsidian’s video. I feel like most of the younger generations and the older generations are too crazy and ruin things 😂 I only like talking to people in about 30s and 40s now with a few exceptions.

    I started writing on my blog again. I will write more soon. I’m finishing up the final paper for the class I’m in right now.

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  108. I’ve tried to talk to people other places, on Facebook, Reddit, and discord. There’s too much fighting and craziness and people will get mad about anything that doesn’t have to do with them and you’re not even talking to them. I talk to some women sometimes on Facebook still but not often anymore. I gave up and got frustrated. I only talk about anything in any depth on here with all of you now.

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  109. A lot of the craziness could be from geomagnetic events TBH. I’ve mentioned this before. We just had some really crazy, and concerning, events happen in the last few days. I won’t go into it here, but things are really not looking so good for us geomagnetically rn. People are also getting fucking vaxxed, and are freaked out about the lockdowns and whatnot. I think COVID and the lockdowns and the vax are a cover for the mental and physical effects of these geomagnetic events, like I’ve said. People are literally not in their right minds. Maybe it’s good to just stay to yourself for now.

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  110. I feel really dumb and drained whenever people try to argue with me and I argue back. I kinda feel like I can’t help it. I’ve been around really stupidly argumentative people my whole life and it’s just a response. Like if someone says shit to me I have to say something back and then I feel dumb for still engaging and it’s the internet and I can just walk away. And especially if they’re like 10 years younger than me or something. There was some show I’m trying to think of where this middle aged guy was getting in arguments online with some 20 y/o and his wife told him to come to bed and he stayed up all night arguing online instead. Idk maybe it was South Park? That’s how I feel when I get in online arguments. Like they are just ridiculous. They keep anyone from talking about anything and feel draining. I have seen some pretty funny internet arguments that I wasn’t involved in though.

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  111. Ehh different places just have different vibes. A lot of it is just from the different age groups like most of us in our 30s and 40s here so old enough to not just have become adults but young enough to have not completely lost our minds yet. Also it’s more of a community here and with a lot of the same people talking.

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  112. I wish I was cooler and could just disengage when people start arguing with me and go watch funny stuff or whatever instead. Listening to my insane parents fight my whole life fucked me up. I’m frustrated that so many people are so argumentative that it’s hard to talk to other people with all of it without someone interrupting to argue. I was reading some YouTube comments earlier and that was full of a bunch of arguments too.

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  113. Lol it was definitely a TV show that I’m thinking of where he got into an argument.

    I really would like to listen to all different perspectives too from people of all different ages and places. And if you go talk somewhere you can’t say okay only 30 and 40 year olds can talk to me unless you prove you’re not crazy 😂 but like things get way crazier with different generations. I’ve seen a bunch of stuff too where these young 20 year olds will start fights with like 50 and 60 year olds.

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  114. Facebook gets a bunch of those arguments with the youngest women are arguing with the oldest ones.

    It feels so much harder to talk people if they get too far out of my age range. Then if you’re trying to talk to someone closer in age in any group somewhere then someone else might still get offended by something that doesn’t even involve them and start arguing, then I’m too dumb to not argue back to people.

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  115. I’m still so glad I found all of you on WordPress though. Everyone I’ve connected with from here is really cool. And this is the only group setting I feel like bothering with saying anything anymore and I feel like I can say what I’m thinking without someone randomly coming along and being offended like it’s all about them. I tried to see what was going on other places but it’s too crazy. This is the only place I talk about real things, anywhere else if I say anything it’s about cute cats or
    different hobbies.

    When I first found Femonade it was like whoa what is this? Like I stumbled upon this secret women’s network and I spent like a year following links everywhere to all the different blogs I could find. I had never seen anything like that before and it blew my mind.

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  116. That’s really upsetting that TS said you had a “loser attitude.” Especially coming from someone who calls herself disabled (and I know RA can be disabling). But someone who struggles with health issues should be the last person to mock someone else for their struggles surviving with a chronic illness. Ughhhh. I’m going to bite my tongue right now but there’s a lot more I could say about this subject.

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  117. Also, if you have something to say on the subject, I would love to hear it. There is probably no need to keep talking about specific people, but “the subject” of how sick women are treated, and whatnot, is relevant to this blog.

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  118. I don’t know if I have much else to say now that I’ve calmed down, lol. Just that when people who call themselves disabled but mock or attack those with worse conditions for their “attitudes,” something seems a little off. Because most people who’ve really suffered with disability and illness don’t call other sick people losers for struggling to get disability benefits or otherwise function. 

    FYI I found a couple women that have good things to say about the global situation if you haven’t heard of them. Dr Jessica Rose (link below), a researcher in immunology, and Yolande Norris Clark (of course I don’t recommend all her content, but the pandemic stuff is good). 

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  119. About arguing online — maybe there’s a Myers Briggs type or some other kind of personality indicator for doing that. I try not to, but sometimes the temptation is great, lol. It almost feels like a compulsion to speak my version of truth, in person and online. Maybe because I was never allowed to express myself growing up, but I guess that’s pretty common because most girls are silenced and ignored. I’m INFP and that’s supposed to mean you’re idealistic. Or maybe I just have a big ego and want to be right, haha. I kind of enjoy debating, but most people just turn it into a big fight. I found myself trying to politely disagree recently with a 20-something “radfem” who likes Jordan Peterson. Of course disagreement is met with outrage and they turn it into a fight even if you’re civil. It’s so ridiculous, and such an energy drain. But every so often, I get sucked in. 

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  120. Yes, to all of this. And thank you for writing the post I felt just too exhausted to write. For some reason, every year around Happy Breeder Day, I just get too tired and angry to say what needs to be said.

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  121. I know right? If you’ve had any disability and gotten a feel for how bad it is that seems like you would have to develop more emphathy for people who are struggling with their own thing that’s even worse. I’ve been really sick before to the point I could barely move and I actually thought I was dying, and it was truly hell and really taught me what it’s like to be unable to do things for yourself no matter how much you want to because you just can’t. I still wouldn’t have been saying mean stuff about someone saying they are sick before that, but now I really understand it personally.

    I’m still partially disabled I call it now, I guess disabled is disabled no matter how severe but it sounds weird to just say I’m disabled because it’s only partially disabling now from my messed up spine that’s probably for life, though has room for improvement with lots of work on it, and from my knee injury which I think should heal with treatment. I don’t really feel sick anymore, only mildly sometimes and the pure pain is so much less unpleasant than having the sick feeling too.

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  122. Yes! Diveroftheheart, This is exactly how I feel! “I try not to, but sometimes the temptation is great, lol. It almost feels like a compulsion to speak my version of truth, in person and online. Maybe because I was never allowed to express myself growing up, but I guess that’s pretty common because most girls are silenced and ignored.”

    I can’t help it when people start arguing with me, it’s like a compulsion that I have to tell my view. I would also like to hear other viewpoints like friendly sharing ideas debating stuff, but they make it an argument. I think also because I grew up around my parents constantly arguing and generally everyone being very argumentative, it’s hard not to act like that when people start with me even though I hate it.

    I’m still upset to a probably irrational level about that twenty something year old couple basically telling me to shut up that I can’t talk to someone else, it wasn’t even to them, about something they don’t agree with in the same forum that they are in. If they only want to hear people with the exact same experience and perspective as them talk they might as well stay in their house and only talk to each other. Why join a group with a bunch of different people with different experiences that’s supposed to be for talking about anything and not getting censored?

    I basically agree with storyneverending’s take on sexuality, it’s more complex than any of this stuff we get told and it’s based mostly on societal brainwashing why we almost all get sucked into being with men. I would add in some stuff about trauma making us act different ways too and possibly there may be some genetic component to some things but that’s not the whole story. I don’t think there’s simple answers for anything, there’s lots of factors. But everything is supposed to be simple now and it doesn’t really work like that.

    These really young adults and the teenagers seem to be argumentative to an extreme now. On one hand, it is good they are confident at least. But damn don’t young people get high anymore? They need to seriously chill. It’s ridiculous. I totally get that growing up with the internet showing you so much access to information about how bad things are your entire life would make them angry but it’s not helping to just want to fight with anyone about anything.

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  123. I feel more and more disconnected from society not being a mother the older I get. It’s so true it’s like you get excluded. I don’t know how to make friends with women my age anymore, everything’s been all about kids for a while and they don’t care about anything you’re doing if it’s not about kids. The first ones were already having kids when I was 19 and I was shocked because I didn’t think anyone would intentionally do that and make their life so hard before they were able to establish themselves. I thought it was an outdated thing and they would want to do stuff first. Now they’re about on the last round of having kids before we get too old to be doing it in a few years. One of my cousins is pregnant now so I think that just leaves me, another cousin who is feminist and an academic so idk what she’ll do, and two male cousins who will probably have kids.

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  124. On a related note I found the cringiest pregnancy announcements ever. 😬 I don’t think there’s any way to post pictures on here is there? Maybe I’ll post them on my site 😂

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  125. I’m wary of any women who consistently put their energy towards drama and division. As well as those who put off narcissistic red flags, who seem mostly interested in fostering a community of minions to lick their narc wounds for them, and attack anyone who offends the narc. This is what I’ve observed from a certain GSL. It looks like an investment in Oppression Olympics, where the “most oppressed” people, or at least those who can make the best “im so oppressed” case for themselves, wins a higher status among their peers/minions. I personally know lesbians who’ve been mobbed out of her group for daring to challenge the narc’s ideas about being an uber-oppressed butch GSL.

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  126. Re: why is everyone so crazy

    Honestly I wonder sometimes if conversations like what you posed are just professional/hobby tolls doing spontaneous collaborations.

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  127. I completely share both (Diver and Onewoman) of your sentiments on the compulsion to argue lol. But I have found a space in me,in recent years, that allows me to preserve my energy by not arguing but also without feeling diminished in my sense of self.. Like realizing that arguing with a crazy or dishonest person is a losing game. You lose when you make the choice to engage them. When I started looking at it that way, I felt secure in my silence. Silence isn’t always voiceless.

    One of my favorite quotes I came across in the last year is:
    “Don’t argue with people who don’t know what they’re talking about. Don’t get into the mud with a pig. You’ll just get dirty, and the pig with love it.”

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  128. I hate the oppression Olympics stuff so much! Make so sense. They act like oppression is just a bunch of things that they add up and then the people with the most can talk. Making fun of that stuff was actually a big part of that Discord group so that’s kinda funny.

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  129. That stuff was all just argumentative people and the gsl were a young couple who live together. But yeah I’m sure there are people who are like to get in arguments for a hobby. There’s women who are known in the radfem Facebook groups for arguing with everyone. Like there’s one woman, who looks pretty white, who from what I’ve seen people say, keeps saying she’s different races and getting in fights about how oppressed she is and white people are bad type stuff.

    I absolutely hate arguing. I have no idea why this would be people’s idea of fun. 😂 I never start arguments but I feel this compulsion to keep answering back when people try to start shit with me like I have to defend myself. I really want to hear different perspectives, but not if someone’s going to just want to fight about it.

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  130. Case in point regarding my comment above…, if you wanna do a quick check on who wields social power in any situation, just think of the very names you’re not allowed to speak of or criticize. Who are you not allowed to name/criticize?…that person (or people) has power of one sort or another.

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  131. I know it’s aggravating, but are GSL evil and vile compared to handmaidens or men? Do GSL have any power in the real world? In my experience of arguing with Bev Jo (since we are all obviously talking about her, may as well bring it home) she makes up and changes definitions of words, which I don’t appreciate. She moves the goalposts, and uses other gaslighting tactics and acts like she doesn’t. You have to be pretty well versed in radical feminist concepts to recognize what she is doing. Also, she is truly hateful in my experience. It’s possible that she shows a different side to different people though. So do I feel sorry for stupid or lazy or newbie women who get run off by her because they can’t hold their own against her? Honestly I’m not sure. I do feel badly for women who can’t find community, or sanctuary, if that’s what they really want and need. But, people are responsible for their own feminist education, aren’t they. I think it’s important that GSL be allowed to speak freely. I can take their concepts, and what I see as mistakes or whatever, and write about them in my own space if I really want to. Do I feel sorry for women who don’t make their own space to talk about things? Kind of. It takes a lot of time, and I know a lot of women don’t have that. But I’m also not even on social media whatsoever and most of them probably are. They probably could find or redirect the time/energy they spend there if they really wanted to.

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  132. I never said anything about GSLs on the whole. I never said anyone shouldn’t be allowed to speak. Why is there a need to compare GSLs to other women or men? Evil? I think narcissism can do evil. I’m simply pointing out narcissistic behavior and narcissistic dynamics and how destructive it is to communities. I’ve seen it in many forms in all types of groups and communities. Narcs come in all shapes and types. And I’m inclined to point it out when I think that others have the capability to see what I’m referring to, and prevent them from falling victim. And yes I do feel sorry women who fall victim to such dynamics. They’re victims. And the victimizer is responsible for the abuse.

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  133. That’s really true that you already lose when you get into arguments. Honestly my parents fucked me up so badly being around them arguing my whole life I have issues both with in some situations being really careful around people to not start arguments, and other times with not being able to stop myself from arguing back when people start. It’s a struggle to teach myself any better.

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  134. I wasn’t talking about Bev Jo. I’m upset about all these damn kids picking fights with me. Back in my day we just got blazed off our asses and laughed about everything 😂

    But Bev Jo is pretty seriously judgemental though. I do read her stuff but it gets so ridiculously judgey like everyone who doesn’t see things exactly like her, and didn’t see it like that their entire life since they were a small child, is a stupid sell out. I just take what information I think is right from it and leave it at that.

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  135. Also I’ve talked to Bev Jo a tiny bit on Facebook and have just seen the nice side with her talking about her rats and other little animals and female separatism stuff. But a bunch of the stuff that she wrote on her blog is pretty intense that is like everyone is pretty much terrible besides her. I also get where she’s coming from with that though, she’s obviously been through a lot of people judging her throughout her life.

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  136. Bev Jo is a master thought terminator. Like 99.99 infinity% of everyone, everywhere, in every community. There are very few places where women are allowed to follow their thoughts to their logical conclusions. I think I have managed to create and maintain spaces that not only allow it, but insist on it. The reason I started blogging in the first place was that no one was letting me do that, anywhere. I started FCM when I was in Newsvine jail for fighting with some misogynist dem asshole about something, I can’t even remember what. I got suspended for a whole week, and he got suspended for a day, even tho he made some thinly-veiled rape threat that no one noticed (or acknowledged) except me.

    Idk. These communities are completely voluntary. There is no money or material coercion involved. Few to none of us has any real power in the real world. So how abusive can they really be? I’m using criteria that we generally use when we think about abuse. I know that women have higher expectations of so-called feminist communities, and they are free to have any expectations they wish. And they are free to be constantly disappointed lol. I do wish the groundrules were more explicit, like most of us are aware that it’s unacceptable to resort to doxxing any of the others of us no matter what. As far as I know, I haven’t been doxxed yet, and I’ve been pissing people off on my blogs, including pissing off Bev Jo, since 2009. I think thought termination is abusive, but it’s everywhere. I guess I really don’t care that much (anymore) about powerless lesbians being “abusive.” People are free to create the spaces they want, aren’t they? I did it, and I’ve done it repeatedly, and I keep doing it. It’s almost like I can’t help myself.

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  137. INTJ: I’m another one. I’ve always attributed that to being a mathematician. But it may have been the INTJ that attracted me to mathematics. Chicken, egg?

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  138. Hm now you all made me curious about that personality type thing and I’m going to have to take it again lol.

    I don’t think the thought terminating stuff is so much an abusive thing coming from younger people at least, mainly just really annoying. No one’s allowed to talk to each other about something they don’t agree with because of some ideas they have about how things work. They view different ideas as sort of an attack on them or something, even if they have mostly different ideas than the mainstream already.

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  139. I got ENFP-T this time. Looking at the results lists I see that when I took it before I remember I had INFP before. The picture of the hippie lady smelling flowers with butterflies around her nailed it for me lol. But apparently I’ve gotten more extroverted now. I guess because I feel so lonely at the moment. But if I was around too many people it would be back to introverted 😂

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  140. > I think it’s important that they are out there speaking, and be-ing, and that getting into these pissing matches with non-GSL is a drain on their energy. I want them to keep their energy because GSL honestly are very important. They are the only women, and I do mean the ONLY ones, that have ever successfully kept *any* resources away from men. If it weren’t for them, men would have literally everything, and access to everything else bc they steal from women. GSL don’t let men steal from them. They are the only ones.

    So glad you said this. I totally agree. I think GSLs have a Gynergy that is undiluted (or far less diluted), or unadulterated, or however you want to describe it.

    I’m also an INTJ!

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